Novel Discussions: A Chat about Pigs In Heaven by Barbara Kingsolver

Editor's Note: This is an edited transcript of an online chat held on
May 30, 1996. Novel Discussions is an online readers discussion group.
Each month participants meet on MSN to discuss a selected novel. May's
selection was Pigs In Heaven by Barbara Kingsolver. The chat was
held in BookExpo 96 -- a service of Albion.com on The Microsoft Network
(Go word "bookexpo").The host is Catherine Hubbard <netiquette_fm>.
Thanks to all our participants.

Host netiquette_fm:
Has anyone here read any of Kingsolver's other novels?

Rollerskate:
No, this is the first Kingsolver I've read.

Mat_Miller:
No. I never heard of her before this

ZTYGE:
No, but I saw the BBS posting on the other one.

Host netiquette_fm:
Pigs is the second novel that features Taylor and Turtle. _The Bean Trees_ tells the story of how Taylor and Turtle first come together. Although I prefered Pigs, The Bean Trees is certainly worth reading.

Host netiquette_fm:
Kingsolver also wrote a novel called _Animal Dreams_ and her most recent work is a wonderful book of essays called _High Tide In Tucson_.

Host netiquette_fm:
Perhaps a good way to start this discussion is to ask your general impressions of the book. Did you enjoy it? What do you think are its strengths and weaknesses?

Mat_Miller:
I liked it. I loved the characters and the way she uses language more than the story itself

ZTYGE:
Strength- I felt her language and emotion were real.

Rollerskate:
I thought it an easy read. I was disappointed in that I wasn't emotionally invested in the characters, as I usually am (I cry at the drop of a hat). The beginning and ending seemed contrived. But overall, I enjoyed it after the first fourteen pages.

ZTYGE:
The line about the clock gulping time really got my attention.

Host netiquette_fm:
I think her characters are very real.

Rollerskate:
She does dialogue better than she does non-dialogue.

Host netiquette_fm:
Yes. I remember that one, Dianna

Mat_Miller:
One weakness was her description of Seattle. She sounded like a tourist, and since I live here it didn't ring true.

Host netiquette_fm:
She's very natural with dialogue, but I think her non-dialogue is very smooth and gracefull.

Mat_Miller:
Actually, I think she uses a lot of poetic images in here narrative

Host netiquette_fm:
That's an interesting point, Karen.

Rollerskate:
CH, it was almost too much so. I felt that she spent most of the time on her novel in the first four pages - time writing and polishing, that is.

Linda_G:
Hi--Just joined you. I finished the book last week

Rollerskate:
It was so image-dense that it was almost off-putting to me.

Linda_G:
I liked all of the images and found it a nice change

Host netiquette_fm:
I guess that kind of writing tends to appeal to me.

Host netiquette_fm:
I like the way she takes small details and goes off into a more philosophical bent.

Rollerskate:
You and BG. I sound negative, but I did enjoy it. I just didn't get "into" the characters as much as I usually do in novels.

Mat_Miller:
Because I love poetry I enjoyed the imagery

Host netiquette_fm:
I believe Kingsolver writes poetry too tho I have never seen any.

Linda_G:
Its funny that you say that you didn't get into the characters. I could picture them very easily

Host netiquette_fm:
I could too. I felt they were very "real".

Rollerskate:
It was lovely, Karen. But I found myself spending an hour on the first fourteen pages, and an hour on the rest of the book. It was almost as though two people wrote the book - one for the first fourteen pages, and another for the rest of it.

circle15:
Hi! Thanks for the welcome. I absolutely adored this book. I was so sorry to finish it. It was so rich in character and the descriptions were so real I felt like I could really see everything.

Mat_Miller:
But I agree that it didn't involve me deeply in the story

Host netiquette_fm:
Why do you think that was, Karen?

Host netiquette_fm:
I wasn't in tears, by any means. But I thought that Kingsolver treated her characters dilemmas with a lot of compassion.

Rollerskate:
Karen, the story didn't involve me deeply either. I enjoyed it as a good read, but I found many of the situations and interactions seemed superficial.

Mat_Miller:
Maybe because it was all too convenient the way she connected all the people

Host netiquette_fm:
That's a good point.

Rollerskate:
Karen, exactly.

Linda_G:
I don't know about Karen, but I didn't get into the story as much as the characters. Maybe because I couldn't relate to the story

Host netiquette_fm:
Kingsolver was asked if she thought that men and women wrote differently. She said that she thought that men focused on "man against" some element (man against nature, man against society etc. )...

Mat_Miller:
Also, she threw in these odd people like Barbie who really had no bearing on the plot

Host netiquette_fm:
...while women tended to focus more on relatedness.

Mat_Miller:
Linda I agree with you

Rollerskate:
There was no angst that was really out there. People seemed to have surface emotions ... they came, they went, without rippling the surface of the characters.

Host netiquette_fm:
I loved the Barbie Character!

Rollerskate:
Yes, but what was she there for?

Linda_G:
What did she say women focused on? I thought the Barbie thing was a little crazy. Like something you would add for a TV movie

ZTYGE:
To make the story more real.

Mat_Miller:
I think she's a great character, but maybe in a different book.

Rollerskate:
Dianna, how did she make it more real?

circle15:
The connections were convenient, and the only thing I was disappointed in was that she didn't really follow thru on the fact that Alice had walked away from her husband and suddenly seemed to be ready to jump into marriage again?

debralynn:
hi, just listening, didn't read the book, forgive me for being silent

ZTYGE:
Maybe it was to show Turtle could end up with someone like Barbie.

Host netiquette_fm:
no problem, debra

Rollerskate:
?

ZTYGE:
As a parent.

ZTYGE:
If someone were going to take my child and raise him.

Host netiquette_fm:
Circle: good point about Alice and marriage.

Rollerskate:
I didn't get any allusions to that. What made you think that?

ZTYGE:
I would be worried who they would end up with .

ZTYGE:
Because I was trying to figure out why she was their also.

Host netiquette_fm:
When struggling with poverty in Washington, Taylor comments: "Maybe Barbie has the right idea. Use the free sunshine yourself. Use whatever comes your way."

Rollerskate:
:)

HMitch:
Hi - I'm lurking

ZTYGE:
It seemed Barbie showed both of them how crass some folks are.

HMitch:
Hi CH - I didn't read the book <sheepish grin>

Mat_Miller:
She seems to be a symbol of every thing that is surface only and no substance

Host netiquette_fm:
There's a lot about just surviving in the book. I think Barbie is a survivor who will use anything to get to live out her dreams.

circle15:
Barbie was an "interesting" character. I did keep waiting for "Ken" to show up.

ZTYGE:
Barbie-As someone who always took the easy road. While Taylor struggled to do what was right?

ZTYGE:
Lol

Host netiquette_fm:
circle: LOL

Host netiquette_fm:
Perhaps it's a comment on women trying to be doll-like?

Rollerskate:
I dunno, Taylor took the easy way by running away from it all, no?

Host netiquette_fm:
I think she was overwelmed.

Rollerskate:
And I'm not sure I agree that Taylor was struggling to do the right thing. What was the "right" thing?

circle15:
I knew how she felt though. My oldest daughter became ill when she was 15 months old, and I really wanted to just take her and run away from it all.

ZTYGE:
Keeping Turtle with someone she knew loved her.

Host netiquette_fm:
It helps to have read The Bean Trees - she set up a fake adoption of Turtle and now that comes back to bite her.

Linda_G:
Wouldn't anyone be overwhelmed? She knew that she had adoped Turtle illegally.

Rollerskate:
The right thing was taking Turtle away from her culture and people?

ZTYGE:
The right thing was taking her and keeping her "safe"

circle15:
Was PIGS IN HEAVEN a sequel?

Linda_G:
I didn't realize that the bean trees was also about Taylor and Turtle.

debralynn:
bye, thanks for allowing me to observe...see ya

Host netiquette_fm:
circle: there was an earlier novel which tells the story of how Taylor and Turtle first came together.

Host netiquette_fm:
Called The Bean Trees - I read it after Pigs.

circle15:
Does it spoil the story to read it after PIGS?

Linda_G:
Did you like it better?

circle15:
Are all her stories so rich in detail?

Mat_Miller:
Why didn't she take Turtle to the CPS or call the police?

ZTYGE:
I think her first thougth was to protect

Host netiquette_fm:
Karen: That's a good question.

circle15:
Call the police for what? When Lucky fell in?

Mat_Miller:
No I mean when she first got Turtle

ZTYGE:
Perhaps this is a reflection of mistrust in her childhood?

Linda_G:
or mistrust of men

ZTYGE:
Formal authority?

ZTYGE:
yes

Host netiquette_fm:
I think Dianna is right. She was also alone and felt that the abused child was now her responsibility, as she was "given" to her by a family member.

Host netiquette_fm:
I think its hard to understand why she makes that decision tho.

Rollerskate:
It is.

Rollerskate:
I don't think we got far enough into her head to understand it.

Host netiquette_fm:
I saw an interview with Kingsolver recently and she said she was interested in reinventing the American myth of the self-made man. She wanted to reinvent the myth in such a way that contributions from others were not seen as a weakness.

Linda_G:
It was for me too, but my upbringing/background was much different than Taylors

ZTYGE:
Not enough background in this book

Rollerskate:
And that, I felt, was the reason I didn't get emotionally involved. We never really got a complete characterization of anyone.

Mat_Miller:
Especially in this day and age. I mean it's not like they were alone in the prarie or something

ZTYGE:
Not even of turtle.

Linda_G:
But the characters did seem so real and picturesque

Mat_Miller:
Have to kill kids! BRB

ZTYGE:
Maybe she saw this as some assigned duty?

Rollerskate:
They were richly outlined, Linda, but I didn't get any depth to them.

Rollerskate:
They were like moving scenery more than complex people.

Host netiquette_fm:
What about the title?

ZTYGE:
I agree.

Host netiquette_fm:
There are quite a few references to pigs in the book, the most obvious being Annawake's story of the six lazy sons who are turned into pigs after their mothers feed them sgwlesdi ball soup!

Linda_G:
I loved the story of the Pigs in Heaven--made me want to to look at them in the skies

Rollerskate:
The meaning of "pigs in heaven" seemed to change a couple of times in the novel, and what they represented. But I thought it an interesting choice of title.

ZTYGE:
The mothers regretted their actions.

circle15:
Sorry, I got disconnected

Host netiquette_fm:
I agree. I'm still a little puzzled about the title.

Linda_G:
But I don't think Taylor or Alice regretted any of their actions did they?

Host netiquette_fm:
The point of the story, Annawake says, is to "do right by your people or you'll be a pig in heaven."

Rollerskate:
At first, I thought I understood it. And then when the story changed, I was confused also.

ZTYGE:
Nope.

Mat_Miller:
back

ZTYGE:
someone who is punished?

Host netiquette_fm:
We're talking about what the title means, Karen

Host netiquette_fm:
At the beginning of the book, Alice's garden is invaded by pigs: "pigs are turning out to be the family curse". Alice's mother ran a hog farm for 50 years.

Host netiquette_fm:
In many cultures, the pig is a fertility symbol. It also can symbolize gluttony, greed, lust, anger, unbridled passion, and the unclean. The sow is associated with "the Great Mother". In the American Indian culture, the pig is a "lunar and thunder animal and a rain-bearer".

Rollerskate:
What is it in the Cherokee culture, though?

Rollerskate:
Was anyone else bothered by Annawake's tendency towards stereotype?

Host netiquette_fm:
I think Kingsolver is addressing a big issue of how to survive in the modern world. Laziness, not contributing to the community is not the way to go.

Rollerskate:
That's what I thought, too, CH, with the original reference to the story.

Host netiquette_fm:
Throughout the story, Kingsolver explores the tension between the individual and the community. In Annawake's myth, the lazy sons are self-serving and don't contribute to the community.

Host netiquette_fm:
When Annawake first tells the Pigs story to Jax, she asks him what his myth is. He says:

Linda_G:
Why did you think Annawake was a stereotype?

Host netiquette_fm:
"the usual American thing. If you're industrious and have clean thoughts you will grow up to be the Vice President of Motorola"

Host netiquette_fm:
Annawake interprets this as "Do right by yourself." Then later she says: "Your culture is one long advertisement for how to treat yourself to the life you really deserve. Whether you actually deserve it or not."

Host netiquette_fm:
Do you think this is fair?

circle15:
I didn't feel Annawake was stereotypical. She seemed to be something of a rebel herself.

Host netiquette_fm:
Annawake kind of represents both the community and the individual. She has her own personal reasons for pursuing the case against Taylor, but also acts for her community

Host netiquette_fm:
I thought Annawake was a hard character to decipher.

CBDef:
I think she let her personal feelings interfere and used the ligimate excuse of the law for her own purposes

Mat_Miller:
Actually, I felt that she used that as an excuse to pursue the case. Kind of her way of getting back at people for what happened to her

Host netiquette_fm:
She seemed to be at arms length a bit, but then that's part of her personality too, I think.

circle15:
I think the matchmaking little old ladies were more stereotyped. I tended to get frustrated with Annawake. She wasn't someone I would want to get to know.

Linda_G:
so did I. She confused me because of being in both worlds

Host netiquette_fm:
Yes. There's definitely a tension there, Karen.

Rollerskate:
She struck me as the Angry Indian "type". And then, Alice as the Wise Woman "type".

circle15:
Alice was definately the "crone" type.

CBDef:
Of course, the Indians of today maybe have reason to be angry

Linda_G:
I agree about the type casting of both women. What "type" was Taylor?

Rollerskate:
CBDef, I wouldn't argue that.

CBDef:
Single mother trying to make in on her own

Host netiquette_fm:
One thing Kingsolver said about this book was that she wanted to present both sides as being "right". Do you think she accomplished this?

Rollerskate:
No.

Mat_Miller:
Why?

Rollerskate:
I think the ending was a cop-out.

Rollerskate:
Ending it one way or another would have left the reader with ambivalence over what was "right".

Host netiquette_fm:
How else could it have ended Perry?

circle15:
Yes, I could see both sides of the question. I agree that the ending was a cop-out. It was too easy.

CBDef:
I think it was a compromise of a difficult situation

Mat_Miller:
I did feel like the whole think fizled at the end

Linda_G:
It may have been a cop out, but I still loved the ending--even if it was very unrealistic.

Rollerskate:
Realistically, CH.

Host netiquette_fm:
I don't think she had much choice. I think an ending that went one way or the other would have left the reader disatisfied...

Linda_G:
Wouldn't the ending have been awful if "both sides" hadn't won?

Rollerskate:
Linda, yes, which made it in my mind an "easy read". There was no thinking to do after the book ended so facilely.

Host netiquette_fm:
however, bringing Cash and Alice together was a bit over the top.

Rollerskate:
Indeed. :)

Mat_Miller:
Ch, agree

Host netiquette_fm:
Linda: yes

Linda_G:
Agree about Cash and Alice, but it made for a memorable story.

circle15:
I agree. I liked both characters, but to have Cash go smash his TV?

Rollerskate:
Enjoyable, yes. Memorable? Not in my opinion.

Host netiquette_fm:
Kingsolver addresses many concerns of the modern family, including adoption, single parenthood, child abuse, families separated by geographical space, unsatisfactory marriages.

Linda_G:
would be great in the TV movie. I meant memorable from the standpoint of picturing Cash smashing his TV. Was very funny to me

Host netiquette_fm:
Certainly, the difficulty of raising children is explored at length.

Host netiquette_fm:
Cash's poignant line about raising his daughters really hit me:

Host netiquette_fm:
"I feel like I done my girls wrong, some way. Like there was something they was waiting for me to tell them that I never could think of."

CBDef:
I enjoyed finding little gems like that throughtout the story

Host netiquette_fm:
Jax sees parenthood as "To put yourself second, every time, no questions asked."

Host netiquette_fm:
Yes. There's a lot of them, CBDef.

Rollerskate:
Many.

circle15:
There were!

Host netiquette_fm:
What about Kingsolver's view of men and women?

Host netiquette_fm:
The novel opens with the line: "Women on their own run in Alice's family."

Rollerskate:
We didn't see a lot of men.

Host netiquette_fm:
Did you feel she was overly critical of men in general?

Host netiquette_fm:
Kingsolver herself is a divorcee, with a daughter.

circle15:
Most of them seemed to have some defect

CBDef:
Don't they all

Mat_Miller:
Doesn't everyone?

ZTYGE:
I found her easy to agree with.. :)

Linda_G:
I agree about the defects. Jax and Cash were both far from perfect

Host netiquette_fm:
Dianna <G>

CBDef:
And women, too.

Rollerskate:
I thought she managed to ignore men, mostly .

Host netiquette_fm:
There's a great comment on women bitching about men...

Host netiquette_fm:
"Sympathizing over the behavior of men is the baking soda of women's friendships, it seems, the thing that makes them bubble and rise."

Rollerskate:
Yes, CH, that's my favorite line in the book.

ZTYGE:
At the end she found she wanted Jax after all

Host netiquette_fm:
I thought that was great!

Linda_G:
me too!

Rollerskate:
p. 190 with Alice and Sugar.

Host netiquette_fm:
I think she always wanted Jax, but circumstances and fear kept them apart.

Linda_G:
fear of what?

Host netiquette_fm:
commitment

CBDef:
So does she grow up in the story?

ZTYGE:
I felt she should have given him a little more trust.

Host netiquette_fm:
CBDef: Who? Taylor?

CBDef:
yes

Linda_G:
she must have grown up since she left Seattle and went to Okla

ZTYGE:
Indifference is more painful than being mean.,

Host netiquette_fm:
I'm not sure she does develop that much.

CBDef:
Is it stronger to rely only on yourself or to rely on others?

Host netiquette_fm:
She certainly has to struggle and face the music.

Rollerskate:
Yes, it's more that she gives in rather than grows up. Gives in to the inevitable.

Host netiquette_fm:
I think Kingsolver is making exactly that point, CB

Linda_G:
but isn't that part of growing up--giving in to the inevitable rather than fighting it

Host netiquette_fm:
Hi Dan!

athanasius:
HI. I'm afraid I'm kibuttzing only

athanasius:
kibittzing?

Host netiquette_fm:
no problem, dan

CBDef:
Inevitable that she loves him or that she needs him

athanasius:
Anyway I didn't read the book. No interest in Kingsolver

HMitch:
thanks for letting me lurk - I signed up, hope to participate next time. bye all

Rollerskate:
I dunno, Linda.

Linda_G:
I guess I feel like as a child you don't have to accept anything, you can afford to be much more idealistic than as a grown up.

circle15:
Sorry, got kicked off again.

circle15:
Where are we?

Host netiquette_fm:
Kingsolver said she wanted to rewrite the self-made man myth to show that being helped by others was not a weakness.

Host netiquette_fm:
circle: glad you could get back on. The moof monster is really getting you tonight!

circle15:
Sure is. It's very frustrating.

Host netiquette_fm:
I think in a way, she's attacking the "every person for themselves" notion.

Host netiquette_fm:
This attitude is mentioned a number of times in a negative way.

Host netiquette_fm:
Las Vegas seems to represent the extreme of this, and perhaps Barbie does too.

CBDef:
I think also, that the Indian notion of family is sadly missing from our society today

Rollerskate:
Certainly it's reinforced with some of the "tribal life" idealisms.

Host netiquette_fm:
Yes. I think she's making that point. The modern way of living often involves families being geographically separated for jobs etc.

Linda_G:
I've got to run. I'll be at the beach on vacation during next month's chat, but I'll check the Bulletin Board. 'Night y'all.

Host netiquette_fm:
I guess I looked at the Cherokee situation as a vehicle to talk about family issues.

Host netiquette_fm:
And to get the reader thinking about what "family" really means.

Host netiquette_fm:
And of course she's presenting the Cherokee problem to a wide audience thru her fiction.

athanasius:
And what does "family" mean to Ms. Kingsolver?

CBDef:
community

Host netiquette_fm:
I don't know if she's making that statement.

Host netiquette_fm:
But how important is blood compared to an adoptive parent?

Host netiquette_fm:
I think that question is being raised.

Rollerskate:
Well, it isn't just the mother-child family. More the "it takes a village to raise a child" family.

circle15:
Do any other tribes deal with "outside" adoption the same way?

Mat_Miller:
Seems to me that she is saying tribe = family. That all in the community share responsibility for each member.

CBDef:
yes

Host netiquette_fm:
I'm don't think that Kingsolver is "telling" us how it should be

ZTYGE:
Folks, I've enjoyed the company, but I have to go bath the baby.

Rollerskate:
Bye ... have a nice bath. :)

ZTYGE:
Have a great week- Night!

Host netiquette_fm:
Circle:I think the different tribes have different rules on this.

Rollerskate:
I felt it was more of a cultural thing than a blood thing she raised.

Host netiquette_fm:
Made me think about other cases where a blood relative wants a child back after it's been adopted,

CBDef:
But I agree that knowing your roots help you become a better person and gives you direction to your future

circle15:
I usually disagree that blood ties are important in an adoption case, but I did have to sit back and rethink that feeling after reading this book.

CBDef:
That doesn't mean that a child has to be place with biological parents

CBDef:
This case is different, because there is culture involved

Rollerskate:
Anyone understand why Taylor just didn't enroll to begin with, and avoid the whole situation?

Mat_Miller:
Did she know she was Cherokee?

CBDef:
I don't think she knew her background

Rollerskate:
Alice knew.

Host netiquette_fm:
I think she took the easiest path in Bean Trees.

Mat_Miller:
I found that also to be a little too convenient

Host netiquette_fm:
She did know, but I don't think she knew it would have such an impact.

Rollerskate:
Probably Bean Trees would help in understanding that.

Host netiquette_fm:
I found more problems with Bean Trees tho, as a book.

circle15:
I think you are right about the cultural thing, because the point that she made that made me feel that Cash and the tribe had a right to Turtle was that in the future, Turtle would feel different and have trouble adjusting to an all white world.

Rollerskate:
And yet, Taylor and Alice had adjusted.

Host netiquette_fm:
Taylor speaks in first person (in Bean Trees) and I had a few problems with her character slipping from uneducated to educated (speaking for Kingsolver).

CBDef:
But they were not visibly different

circle15:
Taylor and Alice were barely Cherokee

Mat_Miller:
Of course, she makes the point that being Cherokee is more than blood. It's a state of mind.

athanasius:
I'm going to go folks. I'm glad this group is active. See ya next month. E=MC2, or did I dream that?

Host netiquette_fm:
That's a good point, karen

Rollerskate:
"Barely"? According to the tribe she could enroll. There was no litmus test of Cherokee-ness.

Rollerskate:
Exactly, Karen.

Host netiquette_fm:
good one Dan. See you next time.

Mat_Miller:
For all intents and purposes they are white.

Rollerskate:
They were adjusted to the white world, detached from their culture.

circle15:
Right, but she made a point of Turtle's skin being darker than the rest of them.

CBDef:
Because they became separated from their past

Rollerskate:
Right, CBDef, or denied it.

circle15:
Or didn't know it

CBDef:
I don't think they knew

Rollerskate:
CH says they knew (according to Bean Trees).

Rollerskate:
Certainly Alice knew.

circle15:
Did she pass it on to Taylor?

Host netiquette_fm:
I think she's using the tribe to set up an individual vs. community situation.

Rollerskate:
It wasn't clear whether Taylor did, but she didn't seem very surprised at the fact.

Host netiquette_fm:
I'm sure it was mentioned in the Bean Trees

CBDef:
Is this story a continuation of characters from Bean Trees?

Host netiquette_fm:
But I'd have to double check this

Rollerskate:
CH, definitely ... individual v. community and culture v. culture.

Host netiquette_fm:
Yes, it is

circle15:
I thought that vehicle was very convenient, almost disappointing. Anyone else?

Rollerskate:
Yes, me too.

Mat_Miller:
Yes

Host netiquette_fm:
It seemed to me that she was showing people struggling with problems rather than proposing neat answers, except at the end.

Rollerskate:
I thought she just missed the mark of having a dynamite novel. Instead, it's just an enjoyable read. I think it could have been earth-shattering.

CBDef:
If what was different?

Mat_Miller:
I think she started with an implausible situation, so it's hard to get any reality infused after that

Host netiquette_fm:
She's certainly a very talented writer.

circle15:
I agree. In spite of its flaws, though I loved the book.

Rollerskate:
By denying reality at the end, by a facile ending, by contrived situations.

circle15:
And by not tying up the loose ends.

Rollerskate:
Yes, Circle, it was a nice read!

Host netiquette_fm:
I don't think I came across a single jarring or awkward line (which is pretty unusual in my experience).

Rollerskate:
Her imagery is wonderful.

circle15:
I really felt the heat and the sun

Rollerskate:
But I still wish her characters had more depth and we understood their motivation better.

Host netiquette_fm:
I strongly recommend her book of essays, High Tide in Tucson...

Mat_Miller:
So what we're saying is she has a way with words, but maybe needs to work on the substance?

Host netiquette_fm:
I think it really brings out the best of her work.

Rollerskate:
She paints a picture, Karen.

Mat_Miller:
Yes, beautiful words

Host netiquette_fm:
I think it was an ambitious attempt to bring up a lot of modern issues of family and society in general.

circle15:
Her relationships were very strong actually.

Host netiquette_fm:
But I think the end is too neat and tidy, even for fictio

Rollerskate:
But a picture isn't three-dimensional, I guess is what I feel. It was ambitious, CH; but she copped out of making it really impact the world.

Host netiquette_fm:
She succeeded in getting me to think about a lot of different things.

Rollerskate:
Until the end of the book. :)

circle15:
She succeeded with me as well.

Rollerskate:
When she allows you to stop thinking.

Mat_Miller:
I guess I didn't get that ah-ah feeling. But I still like the book.

Rollerskate:
Me, too, Karen.

circle15:
I would like to read something else she has written. This was the first book I read of hers.

CBDef:
Me, too.

Mat_Miller:
Yes, I would give her a second chance

Rollerskate:
Me, too, Karen/Circle.

Host netiquette_fm:
Try the book of essays...

Rollerskate:
But I'd rather go on for Einstein's Dreams. :)

Mat_Miller:
Ch-- what was that title again

Mat_Miller:
Einstein??

Host netiquette_fm:
High Tide In Tucson

Rollerskate:
Karen, our next assignment, I believe.

Host netiquette_fm:
Einsteins Dreams by Alan Lightman is next months book

Host netiquette_fm:
Thanks everyone for coming and making this a wonderful discussion! I really enjoyed hearing your views.