Today's Topics:
Re: "Hi, in your Utopia would you have parties?"
RE: Milton and God
Blake & Printmaking, Gilchrist
Correction
Re: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Re: Milton and God
Blake's Characters
Re: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Re: Haines (was Robert Hunt)
Re: Haines (was Robert Hunt)
Milton's Gawd
RE: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
invoking spirits
Re: Blake's Face
Re: RE: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Re: invoking spirits
Re: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Finn Coren's settings of Blake
Re: invoking spirits
RE: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Re: RE: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Re: invoking spirits
Re: invoking spirits
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:15:06 +0100
From: timli@controls.eurotherm.co.uk (Tim Linnell)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "Hi, in your Utopia would you have parties?"
Message-Id: <199809211815.TAA11710@merlot.controls.eurotherm.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>somehow undercuts the reader's commitment to him. (On the other
>hand, I agree with Ralph's view that Blake might well have been
>impatient with someone prating about a dead son being "in a
>better place."
To Mr Linnell, 6 Cirencester Place, Fitzroy Square, 7th June 1825
Dear Sir
I return you thanks for the Two Pounds you now send me As to Sr T. Lawrence
I have not heard from him as yet. & hope that he has a good opinion of my
willingnesss to appear grateful tho not able on account of this abominable
ague or whatever it is. I am in Bed and at Work my health I cannot speak of
for it it was not for Cold weather I think I should soon get about again.
Great Men die equally with the little. I am sorry for L/d L./d he is a man
of very singular abilities as also for the D[ean] of C[anterbury] but
perhaps & I verily believe it Every Death is an improvement of the State of
the Departed. I can draw as well a Bed as Up & perhaps better but I cannot
Engrave I am going on with Dante & please myself. I am dr Sir yours Sincerely
William Blake.
There are other examples of Blake expressing similar sentiments, notably to
Hayley on the death of his son.
This doesn't invalidate Ralph's point which I think was a variant of the
marxist 'opium of the people' in which spirituality is used as an instrument
of repression and self repression: Blake certainly wanted to liberate the
divine from the merely priestly, which was a point Pam made. So in a sense
both Pam and Ralph are right, and in agreement, although I don't suppose
either will ever admit it! However it does show the dangers of trying to
attribute an overly rationalist viewpoint to Blake.
I have pretty much convinced myself that Blake believed in the literal truth
of his vision and religious ideas (although I initially didn't want to),
suggesting that they were rational creations of a writer wishing to emulate
the financial success of Milton and Ossian - I failed to argue this case
successfully on the list last year. Furthermore, the various explanations,
(starting with Gilchrist but oft repeated) which have him as a contrary
rationalist who made odd statements from a spirit of opposition, and who
ascribed his visions to his own imagination simply do do not ring true. I
also believe him to have been a very practical and sensible tradesman, at
times, capable of rational argument and reasoned judgements. The difficulty
in evaluating Blake as a historical figure lies in reconciling these two
very opposite elements of his character, and to lose sight of either is to
diminish him.
(in haste)
Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:44:38 -0500
From: RPYODER@ualr.edu
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: RE: Milton and God
Message-Id: <980921144438.20c4aafa@ualr.edu>
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I'm away from home and my Milton text and files, so thanks Tom for providing
some critical resources on Milton and his God. Let me see if I can fill in
(from memory) some textual references on Milton's God's irony.
For example, check out God's opening remarks to the Son in Book III: "See
what rage transports our adversary." God's pun on "transports" is great,
especially if seen in the context of sublime "transport." Also, and I'm not
sure if it is here or later in Raphael's account of the rebellion in heaven,
God speaks to the effect that he is actually worried about Satan's attemptto
shake his throne. In case we miss the joke, Milton's Son says something like,
"Justly dost thou [the Father] hold him [Satan] in derision," and they all
have a good laugh at Satan's ignorance of the futility of his efforts.
Later in Book VIII, when Adam is recounting the story of his creation, he tells
about his discussion of being alone. Adam has said that he is lonely,
and God says, well, what about me, I'm alone. To which Adam responds, well,
you're God; you can have no equal, and you create any company you want, so
being alone doesn't matter to you. By the end of the exchange God finally
says, I knew all this; it was just a test for you. Taken out of context, the
speeches of God (or most of the other characters) can be made to mean other
than what they mean in context (of course this is common to most discourse).
If read with a good "ear", *PL* is hilarious in parts.
I often tell my Milton students, with only a bit of irony, that Milton's God
really only says two things in *PL*: "I knew that," and "It's not my
fault."
Paul Yoder
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:04:35 +0100
From: timli@controls.eurotherm.co.uk (Tim Linnell)
To: tbrylowe@trincoll.edu, blake@albion.com, PRINTS-L@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Blake & Printmaking, Gilchrist
Message-Id: <199809212004.VAA00423@merlot.controls.eurotherm.co.uk>
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Thora (and Blake and Printmaking Lists)
I found the following page of notes in the Linnell archive, which relate to
printmaking and other elements of the Gilchrist biography which I don't
think have been published elsewhere, so I post them for the general interest
of Blake afficionados.
The notes come from a transcript of a letter from John Linnell to Mrs Ann
Gilchrist in April 1855, made, I think, by his son John. The page numbers
relate, I presume, to the first edition of Gilchrist's 'Life'.
Tim Linnell
Page 467. There is very little evidence left that Mrs Blake produced
drawings equally original with her husbands the only one they ever shewed me
which they affirmed to be her design and execution is in my possession & is
certainly sp like one of Blake's own that it is difficult to believe it to
be the production of any other mind.
W. Blake told me that he sat up for a whole fortnight with his brother
Robert during his last illness & upon his going to bed which he did as soon
as Robert died he slept for three days & nights - Mrs Blake confirmed this.
Page 478. The liquid mentioned by Mr Smith with which he says Blake used to
draw his subjects in outline on his copper plates was nothing more I believe
than the usual stopping as it is called used by engravers made cheifly (sic)
of pitch & diluted with turps. The most extraordinary facility seems to have
been attained by Blake in writing backwards & that with a brush dipped in a
glutinous liquid [,] for the writing is in many instances highly ornamental
& varied in character as may be seen in his Songs of Innocence & the larger
work of one hundred plates called Jerusalem.
470 The copper plates which Blake engraved to illustrate Haley's (sic) life
of Cowper were as he told me printed entirely by himself & his wife in his
own press - a very good one which cost him forty pounds
473 - Before Blake's return from Felpham he was tried for high treason at
Chichester his account of this affair was that a drunken soldier forcibly
entered his garden at Felpham whom he turned out with great vehemence &
according to his account frightened the man. This I beleive (sic) to be very
probable [.] the man swore that Blake damned the King and it is not
impossible that something of that sort might have been uttered by Blake in
reply to the soldiers using the Kings name with threats to try & intimidate
Blake who very likely included the man & his master in one curse & an absurd
thing truly to found a charge of high treason upon. However Blake was
acquitted for all the neighbouring farmers & inhabitants of the place who
knew Blake came forward & gave him so high a character that the soldiers
evidence was not believed.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:11:14 +0100
From: timli@controls.eurotherm.co.uk (Tim Linnell)
To: tbrylowe@trincoll.edu, blake@albion.com, PRINTS-L@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Correction
Message-Id: <199809212011.VAA01745@merlot.controls.eurotherm.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The notes in the preceding post on Blake relate in fact to
"Mr Smith's notice of Blake in his notices of Artists, Vol 2. This vol was
sent to J. L. by Mrs A. Gilchrist Apl 28th 1855, asking for his criticisms
upon it."
Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:35:11 EDT
From: Chatham1@aol.com
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Message-Id: <447ce162.3606c68f@aol.com>
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In a message dated 9/20/98 3:19:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RPYODER@ualr.edu
writes:
> But I have no idea what you mean by their transforming Blake
Paul--I enjoyed your comments
Simply--The relationship between Blake and his Characters was a very dynamic
one---"He is their author, they are his muse"---the trajectory of visionary
writing is not a straight line---it is a vortex and the journey is the
destination.
The characters play an active role in the direction of the work---they speak
thru their author. Blake rejoiced in the dance between nature and experience
and in the movement of the dance he painted the vision in book form.
He did not translate in the manner of Joseph Smith (although he relates to us
such instances). He did not preach in the manner of Milton (although he tried
to justify the ways of Milton to Man).
A glad day has the left foot in prophecy and the right foot in artistry--
thus, behold the man---"the brightest heaven of invention".
---
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:48:23 EDT
From: Chatham1@aol.com
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Milton and God
Message-Id:
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In a message dated 9/21/98 1:36:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
tomdill@wc.stephens.edu writes:
> Given the complexity of his exploration of human experience, one
> must conclude that he is outside of and separate from the actions
> of his "characters," observing them from an ironic (if not godlike0
> distance.
(excuse the excerpt) The discovery that this is not the case is the beginning
of the understanding of the essence of his genius.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:58:15 -0400
From: Tim Outerbridge
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Blake's Characters
Message-Id: <3606DA07.CB7B07CC@generation.net>
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> As for Blake, the idea that any of his "characters" serves as a
> mouthpiece for himself is more than usually offbase, in my view.
> Given the complexity of his exploration of human experience, one
> must conclude that he is outside of and separate from the actions
> of his "characters," observing them from an ironic (if not godlike0
> distance.
Yet, in my opinion, one cannot but notice the physical similarities between
Blake's facial features and those of his characters. But I'm afraid that I
would have to agree that Blake is, to a certain extent, separate, as facial
similarity has always served only as a catalyst to my curiosity in this
matter, and I haven't been able to come up with any substantial proof of a
direct interrelation between Blake and his characters..
The danger in equating Blake with his characters is that it opens up the
floodgates between the textual and extra textual world. Blake can be seen
not only as politically active, as Behrendt has suggested, but his texts as
well can become political, or "explosive" works once the lines between Blake
and his characters have been blurred. Once Blake is labelled as an
individual wanting to effect collective change, the entire way that we read
his texts shifts and they become "manifestos" rather than prophecies aimed
at an individual... hm.. but then again, I wonder which of these readings is
closer to the "infernal" method...
Points to ponder...
Im new to the list, and devoid of an academic ego so far, so feel free to
slam me well...
Tim.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:20:28 -0500
From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Message-Id: <98092120202828@wc.stephens.edu>
It is always refreshing to have presented firm and unequivocal
certainties with such trumpet-like clarity, but since the
personage from AOL.COM does not sign a name and seems to evade
identification as well as context or explanation, it is
difficult to know just what the point of all this characterological
enthusiasm might be. (If I missed an introduction or contextualization,
I apologize for my inadvertent ignorance.)
Tom Dillingham
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 18:26:49 -0700
From: Seth T. Ross
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Haines (was Robert Hunt)
Message-Id: <9809220126.AA05797@albion.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Forwarding for D.W. DOERRBECKER ...
Begin forwarded message:
From: "D.W. DOERRBECKER"
Organization: University of Trier
To: seth@albion.com
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:02:32 MET
Subject: Re: Haines (was Robert Hunt)
September 18th, 1998
On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:07:08, Izak Bouwer pointed out that
> In the quote:
> >The Sussex Men are Noted Fools
> >And weak is their brain pan
> >I wonder if H----the painter
> >Is not a Sussex Man
> the H refers to Samuel Haines (1778-1848), also an
> engraver and painter. Work by Haines as well as Blake is
> in Boydell's _Shakespeare_ (1802) and Hayley's _Life of
> Romney_ (1809).
The engraver who signed these plates is, I believe *William* Haines.
He was *born* in Hampshire, not Sussex, travelled extensively
(working in Philadelphia before he returned to Britain in 1805), but
befriended Hayley and for a time settled in Chichester (Sx.). He
did what Hayley wanted Blake to do, i.e. he switched from engraving to
miniature painting and portraiture.
At Felpham Blake had attempted to follow Hayley's advice, producing a
number of quite competent portrait miniatures himself; apparently
however, it didn't take him very long until he realized that neither
his temper, nor his ambitions allowed him to adjust to this specific
genre and the professional interaction with its clientele.
The competition for the commission to engrave the plates for Hayley's
*Life of Romney* may have led to other, more important repercussions
in Blake's works than those lines on "Noted Fools". As Robert
Essick has demonstrated in an important study of the biographical
context of Blake's concept of the Female Will, Caroline Watson's
competition on the market for reproductive engravings (she executed a
fairly large number of plates for Hayley after Blake's return to
London) may well have played a similar role in the creation of
Blake's late epics as did Hunt, Hayley, or Scofield.
DWDoerrbecker,
Fach Kunstgeschichte, FB III
Universitaet Trier
P.S. Just *why* is it one of "Blake's best quips" when he refers to
Hayley's parents and their supposed erotic preferences? Vide the
debate on "Los and Women" and the sexist positions held by some of
Blake's characters and/or Blake himself.
P.P.S. In Thora Brylowe's concise account of relief etching what
was meant was certainly
... Rather than cut lines into the copper as one would do
with intaglio, or cut lines into a medium that covers the
plate as one would do with an etching ...
not, that is
1. The plate. Rather than cut lines into the copper as
one would do with an etching or cut lines into a medium
that covers the plate as one would do with intaglio, Blake
wrote and drew on the plate WITH the medium.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:17:03
From: Izak Bouwer
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Haines (was Robert Hunt)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980922001703.43b75c02@igs.net>
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At 06:26 PM 9/21/98 -0700, Seth Ross wrote:
>Forwarding for D.W. DOERRBECKER ...
>On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:07:08, Izak Bouwer pointed out that
>> In the quote:
>> >The Sussex Men are Noted Fools
>> >And weak is their brain pan
>> >I wonder if H----the painter
>> >Is not a Sussex Man
>> the H refers to Samuel Haines (1778-1848)
>The engraver who signed these plates is, I believe *William* Haines.
Thanks for the correction. I got my information from
_The poems of WILLIAM BLAKE_ Edited by W.H. Stevenson ,
Text by David Erdman, Longman 1977 (1971) p.594 note ii 3:
“The accepted reference is to Samuel Haines (1778-1848), an
engraver and painter, as B. was. Work by both is in Boydell’s
_Shakespeare_ (1802) and Hayley’s _Life of Romney_ (1809).”
This is therefore not such an “accepted” attribution? I , and I’m
sure some others on the list, would appreciate some further
information on the attribution of this “H ---” to William Haines
rather than Samuel Haines.
Doerrbecker also wrote:
>P.S. Just *why* is it one of "Blake's best quips" when he refers to
>Hayley's parents and their supposed erotic preferences? Vide the
>debate on "Los and Women" and the sexist positions held by some of
>Blake's characters and/or Blake himself.
I think the “quip” referred to says a lot about Blake’s character.
I don’t want to be unpopular, but one can be counter-sexist to a fault.
I think Blake inherited much of his outlook from the symbolism in
the Bible, in particular his tendency to cast the Imaginative as male,
and the Natural as female. In the Bible: Eve looks to Adam,
who looks to God. Similarly, the Zoas are male, and their
Emanations are female. Los is the spiritual male, so to speak,
and “the women,” at least the daughters of Albion, represent facets
of the natural world (they “control our vegetative powers”). Los has
to avoid them in order not to be drawn into natural captivation.
Blake obviously thought that Hayley was effeminate yet
domineering.
Izak Bouwer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:39:02 -0400
From: "Hugh Walthall"
To:
Subject: Milton's Gawd
Message-Id: <01bde5eb$4dff63a0$db41440c@erols.com>
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Empson, whether in favor or not, is the best critic of Milton's God. =
The wit of Milton's God is the wit of Oberkommander Gott, Panzer Genius. =
Did you see how far that roof on the orphanage went into the air when I =
fired a shell into it, son?
Nobodaddy, are we aloft yet?
Great to see a message from Mr Doerrbecker. For those who may be new to =
the list I paraphrase the blues singer Sonny Boy Williamson, "There's =
lots of people talkin, but there's mighty few people that know." D. W. =
Doerrbecker knows.
Hugh Walthall
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Empson, whether in favor or not, is =
the best=20
critic of Milton's God. The wit of Milton's God is the wit of=20
Oberkommander Gott, Panzer Genius. Did you see how far that roof =
on the=20
orphanage went into the air when I fired a shell into it, =
son?
Nobodaddy, are we aloft =
yet?
Great to see a message from Mr=20
Doerrbecker. For those who may be new to the list I paraphrase the =
blues=20
singer Sonny Boy Williamson, "There's lots of people talkin, but=20
there's mighty few people that know." D. W. Doerrbecker =
knows.
Hugh =
Walthall
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:28:15 -0500
From: RPYODER@ualr.edu
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: RE: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Message-Id: <980922112815.20c48091@ualr.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Maybe I'm just dense, but I still don't get it: "Blake rejoiced in the
dance between Nature and experience and in the movement of the dance he
painted the vision in book form"? As well as your "reading" of "Glad Day"?
I hate to sound teacherly here, but do you have any evidence from the text
to support your assertions? Glib lines are nice but do not an argument make.
Also, partly because of the tone of much discussion on this list, it is
customary to sign your posts.
Paul Yoder
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:29:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Jay
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: invoking spirits
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I'm not interested in prolonging the debate about whether Blake's visions
and visitations were connections with the divine or lapses into madness
(or were real or symbolic) but I have a question about their genesis:
Did Blake engage in any particular rituals (or mundane practices) when he
wished to initiate a dialogue with the spirits (or fuel his imagination)?
I posted briefly about my project before. There's now a short description
at www.jamesjay.com/wordup.
--Jay
----------------------------------------------------------------------
James Jay Word Up The Juggling Jukebox
PO Box 23227 www.jamesjay.com/wordup www.jamesjay.com/juggling
Seattle 98102
206-329-5057
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:58:46 EDT
From: Chatham1@aol.com
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake's Face
Message-Id:
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In a message dated 9/21/98 7:13:16 PM, tout@generation.net writes:
<>
How true--
I am very interested in knowing the instances that you have noted this
similarity. From my perspective----he was very acute about where he placed
himself in his pictures. It is a key point in understanding the man and his
mythology.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:48:40 EDT
From: Chatham1@aol.com
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: RE: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Message-Id: <421e2fef.36080d28@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Paul---just take things at face value---a statement is a statement
and idea is an idea
A comment can be agreed with, disputed, elaborated, refuted, or turned on its
head
"it all depends on what we mean by 'is'...."
Sincerely yours in footnotes,
Chatham
PS A Glad Day is a glad day but thank you for following the reference
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:13:14 -0500
From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: invoking spirits
Message-Id: <98092216131455@wc.stephens.edu>
I realize that the list is quite legitimately used to request
information about almost any aspect of Blake's life, works,
associates, descendants, etc., and I also know that many people
don't have time to read everything they would like to, but
surely a question such as "Did Blake engage in any particular
rituals (or mundane practices)" is the kind of thing a person
interested in Blake could be expected to have learned by the
simple act of reading a biography--even a brief biography--if
it were not abundantly obvious from almost everything Blake
ever wrote or is known to have said that the obvious answer
is an unequivocal "no."
Tom Dillingham
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:03:09 EDT
From: Mirelda@aol.com
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Message-Id: <43724f6.36081e9d@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-09-21 21:27:01 EDT, you write:
<<
It is always refreshing to have presented firm and unequivocal
certainties with such trumpet-like clarity, but since the
personage from AOL.COM does not sign a name and seems to evade
identification as well as context or explanation, it is
difficult to know just what the point of all this characterological
enthusiasm might be. (If I missed an introduction or contextualization,
I apologize for my inadvertent ignorance.)
Tom Dillingham
>>
Hi Tom, from your note I take it you're a graduate student?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:41:12 -0500
From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Finn Coren's settings of Blake
Message-Id: <98092223411259@wc.stephens.edu>
A while back I mentioned the Norwegian rock musician, Finn Coren,
who has two albums of settings of Blake poems available. They
would appeal, I think, to many who love Blake, even including
people not very fond of rock music. To get an idea of how they
sound, visit Nelson Hilton's Digital Blake site where you
can hear soundfiles (assuming you have the right kind of
connection)--the url is
or similar samples are available at .
Tom Dillingham
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:18:34 -0400
From: bert@kvvi.net (Bert Stern)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: invoking spirits
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Re Dillingham's dismissal of the question re Blake and ritual preparation
for vision, IS it "abundantly obvious," as he elegantly puts it, that the
answer is "an unequivocal no"? I recall Gilchrist's story about how Blake
taught Katherine to draw by having her stare into the flames on the hearth
till she saw such figures as terrified her. And I recall also his
explanation that Ezekiel ate dung "& lay so ;long on his right and left
side" out of "the desire or raising other men into a perception of the
infinite. This is the North American tribes practice. . . ." So maybe
the case isn't closed as tightly as all that.
Bert Stern
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:17:32 -0500
From: RPYODER@ualr.edu
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: RE: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Message-Id: <980923081732.20c558e3@ualr.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Sorry, Chatham, but without some context a comment doesn't have much meaning
for me. I don't much believe in face value. This is one of the things we
learn from Blake and Milton, too, for that matter.
Paul Yoder
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:22:47 -0500
From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: RE: a dusting ------Milton & megaphones
Message-Id: <98092308224725@wc.stephens.edu>
Taking "Chatham's" "things" at face value, I would suggest that those
"statements" are not worth disputing, refuting, or turning over--
there is nothing to discuss--the comments about Milton are simply
ignorant, the remarks about Blake self-consciously and pointlessly
cryptic and silly. If "Chatham" wants to say something worth
discussing or elaborating, fine, but so far it appears that there is
nothing but an effort to disrupt the list and attract attention
or create annoyance.
Tom Dillingham (I enjoyed being a graduate student but can't claim the
dignity of that status at this time.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:27:44 -0500
From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: invoking spirits
Message-Id: <98092308274457@wc.stephens.edu>
Bert Stern has a good point, and he might have added the accounts of
Blake's sessions with John Varley, which might well cut in either
direction on this issue. It seems to me that Blake's actual
descriptions of his visions suggest a spontaneity and immediacy
that belie the notion of "preparation." Such suggestions smack of
efforts to propose yet again that Blake was a precursor of
Aldous Huxley, popping acid to get his neat visions, or of
Carlos Castaneda finding a Yaqui wiseman. As always, such
speculations are amusing so long as one is prepared to ignore
the historical context and the known facts. (Since he never
talked about it, he must have done it, right? Oh, wow, yeah.)
Tom Dillingham
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:10:35 +0100
From: timli@controls.eurotherm.co.uk (Tim Linnell)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: invoking spirits
Message-Id: <199809231609.RAA29133@merlot.controls.eurotherm.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Bert Stern has a good point, and he might have added the accounts of
>Blake's sessions with John Varley, which might well cut in either
>direction on this issue. It seems to me that Blake's actual
>descriptions of his visions suggest a spontaneity and immediacy
>that belie the notion of "preparation." Such suggestions smack of
>efforts to propose yet again that Blake was a precursor of
>Aldous Huxley, popping acid to get his neat visions, or of
>Carlos Castaneda finding a Yaqui wiseman.
Is it not rather an attempt to link Blake to shamenic traditions? I agree
with Tom though - Blake's visions are described by him as happening more or
less spontaneously as he did other things, for example walking in the
countryside. There's no evidence that I know of apart from his gazing into
the fire and seeing imagined shapes there - which we have all done, I
suspect - of any conscious activity by Blake to induce vision.
Tim Linnell
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End of blake-d Digest V1998 Issue #71
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