Today's Topics:
Re: The Road of Excess
Re: The Road of Excess (#2)
Re: "Infant Joy"
Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Re: "Infant Joy"
Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Re: "Infant Joy"
Another Kindred Spirit...
Re: "Infant Joy"
Response to Beulah as an Edenic state
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:05:52 -0500
From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: The Road of Excess
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
(which was also used by Mark Spilka in _The Love Ethic of D.H. Lawrence_ as
a subtitle to one of his chapters...)
I find the whole "Marriage of Heaven and Hell" wears well, myself. One of
my favorites is the discussion about the devourers and the prolific, as
well as the separation of sheep from goats. I also like the metamorphosis
of "art" until someone can happily put it up on their wall, framed. But
then again, it's just a memorable fancy. And the *context*, for those who
would have known it, is a pun off of Swedenborg's "memorable relations",
although I think "memorable fancy" does well enough, on its own.
There's a great Swedenborg WebSite, by the way, for any who are interested
in seeing this person who had thought of nothing new, and brought up all
the old errors...
I also must confess that I LOVE the opening plate, with Rintrah roaring. I
mean, it's so invigorating! Some people are scared of thunderstorms, but I
find the release of negative ions quite... a thrill! Get down that tree,
young man! That foxy girl isn't Eve. She's just helping you, as guide,
because a new wind called REVOLUTION has come to town. And what you thought
was truth is now going to be exposed to be LIES...
---Randall Albright
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:36:55 -0500
From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: The Road of Excess (#2)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
And then, later in life, I learned that that famous line was perhaps a pun
off the classic Greek reserve and moderation (generally), as also spoken by
a person living in Blake's time, Benjamin Franklin:
"TEMPERANCE
Eat not to fulness; drink not to elevation."
To which Blake replies snarlingly that cisterns merely *contain*, but if
you got some real *LIFE* fountains in here, they would overflow! He then
goes on to dine with some great old Testament prophets....
Which reminds me of Lawrence's retort to Franklin's aforementioned proclamation:
"Eat and carouse with Bacchus, or munch dry bread with Jesus, but
don't sit down without one of the gods."
---Randall Albright
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:28:08 +0000
From: timli@controls.eurotherm.co.uk (Tim Linnell)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "Infant Joy"
Message-Id: <3240.199801120828@merlot.controls.eurotherm.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>I found this poem increasingly delightful today. I have a new niece.
As a newish father, I can confirm that Blake was wonderful at expressing the
joy that infant innocence inspires. I particularly love 'Cradle Song'
('Infant smiles are His own smiles'), and 'The angels that presided o'er my
birth, said: 'Little creature formed of joy and mirth, go love without the
help of anyone on earth', which is a wondrously perfect description of a
young baby is, joyful (generally) and loving everything and everybody
without reference to external ideals of beauty, notions of race, or contempt
for the aristocracy, without having to be prompted. It is also,
incidentally, a pretty comprehensive rejection of the idea of original sin.
Whereas in standard Christian dogma one is born requiring redemption, to
Blake, I think, one is born in a state of innocence and it is in the passage
from innocence to experience where things go awry.
Without detracting from his extraordinarily touching poetry, it strikes me
that Blake's account of infants are just as one might expect from someone
without direct experience of them. Newborn children do not show joy, in
general, they just lie there and blow bubbles. Blake's newborns are really 3
or 4 month olds who are on their best behaviour for a visit from a stranger.
Nonetheless, not the least of the tragedies of Blake's life was that a man
who so loved children had none.
Tim
PS: Auguries of Innocence, along with Jerusalem (from Milton) is the most
widely known and loved of Blake's works amongst the British educated
classes, probably because of the striking imagery of the opening lines. The
Queen's quote of a section was really to state that joy and sorrow are
equally a part of life, and I doubt there was any hidden sub-text. I can
find no satisfaction, Ralph, in the death of anyone, aristocrat or horny
handed son of toil.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 06:47:41 -0800
From: Seth T. Ross
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Message-Id: <9801121447.AA01703@albion.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Forwarding for Nathan P Miserocchi ...
Begin forwarded message:
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 02:20:54 -0800
From: Nathan P Miserocchi
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
It is my pleasure to announce the opening to the public of a web based
edition of Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience. The site
was operational last year but access was restricted due to some
copyright issues with Princeton. These issues have been resolved
(Princeton now allows anyone to view their images provided they
are labeled....) and I have opened up the site. Let the wild
rumpus begin!
The site not only offers a complete collection of Blake's _Songs_,
it also has a number of interactive activities, some animated
graphics that make use of Blake's work, commentary, and
suggestions for teaching Blake (you need Macromedia's shockwave
plug-in to do the interactive stuff). The site was recently nominated
for a Smithsonian/Computerworld award.
The address to the site is:
http://www.umich.edu/~nmiseroc/Albion
enjoy!
-Nathan
--
Nathan Miserocchi Department of English
email: nmiseroc@umich.edu University of Michigan
http://www.umich.edu/~nmiseroc Ann Arbor, MI 48105
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:23:22 EST
From: TomD3456
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Message-Id: <529e9d75.34ba89cc@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Nathan-
Thanks for the notice about your Songs site. It's beautiful, and must
have been fun for you and your students to work on. I especially enjoyed
the animated graphics -- the Tyger/Lamb morph and the writhing Los on the
"Under Construction" page, in particular. It's also great to be able to
examine the prints in larger-than-life-size versions.
One cavil: I would have appreciated clearer identification of the source
of the plates. From your note, I was assuming it's the Princeton/Blake
Trust edition, but I didn't find that clearly indicated on the site: In
fact, the "Rare Books and Special Collections- Princeton University
Library" at the bottom of each plate makes me wonder if this is a
not-previously- reproduced copy from the Princeton Rare Book Room. For
viewers who know about the multiple unique copies of Blake's books, it
would be good to indicate which copy it is (A, B, C, etc.), and whether a
printed reproduction is (or has ever been) available.
But all in all, wonderful work. Thanks to you and your students for this
energetic exertion of your considerable collective talents.
--Tom Devine
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:51:12 -0500
From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "Infant Joy"
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I liked your interpretation, Tim Linnell, particularly...
>...loving everything and everybody
>without reference to external ideals of beauty, notions of race, or contempt
>for the aristocracy, without having to be prompted.
And this is a good point:
>It is also,
>incidentally, a pretty comprehensive rejection of the idea of original sin.
Unlike some of what Blake says later in life, with _Jerusalem_......?
>...I think, one is born in a state of innocence and it is in the passage
>from innocence to experience where things go awry.
That sounds very Rousseauian to me...
>Without detracting from his extraordinarily touching poetry, it strikes me
>that Blake's account of infants are just as one might expect from someone
>without direct experience of them.
Or one who imparts their parental joy into them? Just because the title is
Infant Joy doesn't mean, as both you and Nathan as new parents or uncle,
that it doesn't bring out the child within YOU, does it? The desire to
protect, as the illustration shows?
Take care------
Randall Albright
http://world.std.com/~albright/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:25:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan P Miserocchi
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I appreciate that you spent the time to look over the site Tom, and thank
you for the compliments (BTW, I was mysteriously disconnected from my
subscription to Blake-L and had to resubscribe just now. For anyone else
who's viewed the site, or posted to the list for that matter, your time
spent and any comments you've sent are also appreciated, though I
haven't seen them).
I think that you're completely correct about the lack of identification
for the versions of the Songs used in the project. As the site is
continuously evolving, I think that's the next thing that should be
incorporated into it. But, before talking more about the site, some
clarification is needed.
I've been so busy lately that I didn't have time to adequately describe
the project here. A mistake on my part. I myself am a Graduate Student
Instructor in the department of English at the University of Michigan.
My main interests are English Romanticism (Blake being a love, a joy,
a sorrow...) and Technology (as some of you probably could have guessed
by now). The project was created in a course taught by Dr. Eric Rabkin
over a year ago called "Technology in the Humanities." There, myself
and a group of other students created the project. The site,
however, could not be opened to viewers outside of Michigan due to the
fact that Princeton does indeed have an electronic edition of Blake's
Songs which Michigan has a site license to. Though a very debatable point
on many different levels, we were advised not to open the site even if we
had used images that we scanned (scanning an image, of course, does not
nullify copyright). However, recently Princeton has agreed to let anyone
view "their" images provided that the label Tom noted is affixed to them
-- a form of scarrification if you ask me (though you'd be asking the same
person who cut up Blake's work to create digital icons, pulsating Gods,
and writhing Urizens).
On a different note, I'm glad that you liked the "exploded" view of the
images. I'm currently working on a java program that will calculate
the monitor resolution that an image of a print is being viewed on and,
given that resolution, adjust the size of the image so that it is the
size of the actual print in Blake's actual Songs. This is a big problem
given that images show up in different sizes depending on a monitor's
resolution (800x600, 1600X1400 etc.).
Tom, I'm wondering if you took a look at the interactive activities in
the Education section. You need Macromedia's Shockwave plug-in to
load them into netscape (or Internet Explorer), but, IMHO, they're pretty
neat.
all the best,
Nathan
On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, TomD3456 wrote:
> Nathan-
> Thanks for the notice about your Songs site. It's beautiful, and must
> have been fun for you and your students to work on. I especially enjoyed
> the animated graphics -- the Tyger/Lamb morph and the writhing Los on the
> "Under Construction" page, in particular. It's also great to be able to
> examine the prints in larger-than-life-size versions.
>
> One cavil: I would have appreciated clearer identification of the source
> of the plates. From your note, I was assuming it's the Princeton/Blake
> Trust edition, but I didn't find that clearly indicated on the site: In
> fact, the "Rare Books and Special Collections- Princeton University
> Library" at the bottom of each plate makes me wonder if this is a
> not-previously- reproduced copy from the Princeton Rare Book Room. For
> viewers who know about the multiple unique copies of Blake's books, it
> would be good to indicate which copy it is (A, B, C, etc.), and whether a
> printed reproduction is (or has ever been) available.
>
> But all in all, wonderful work. Thanks to you and your students for this
> energetic exertion of your considerable collective talents.
>
> --Tom Devine
>
>
--
Nathan Miserocchi Department of English
email: nmiseroc@umich.edu University of Michigan
http://www.umich.edu/~nmiseroc Ann Arbor, MI 48105
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:35:30 EST
From: NorNob
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Message-Id: <6a6f227.34bb0b33@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-01-12 10:28:38 EST, you write:
<< heir images provided they
are labeled....) and I have opened up the site. >>
I tried to access your site, but aol couldn't get me in. What gives?
Ron Javorsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:00:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan P Miserocchi
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear NorNob and others,
The Songs site uses animated graphics, frames, some java, and in some
places Macromedia director. Unfortunately, many browsers that come
with AOL, Netcom, and other service providers don't support these feature.
The site is best used with Netscape or Microsoft IE. I apologize for
the inconvience to those who are experiencing difficulties.
Unfortunately, I'm not that experienced using AOL or other such service
providers. If anyone is having a problem connecting, could you send
me specific info describing the problem. In NorNob's case, can you
get to the site at all, or is there a specific mesg. that comes up
on your screen?
On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, NorNob wrote:
> In a message dated 98-01-12 10:28:38 EST, you write:
>
> << heir images provided they
> are labeled....) and I have opened up the site. >>
>
> I tried to access your site, but aol couldn't get me in. What gives?
>
> Ron Javorsky
>
>
--
Nathan Miserocchi Department of English
email: nmiseroc@umich.edu University of Michigan
http://www.umich.edu/~nmiseroc Ann Arbor, MI 48105
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:13:05 PST
From: "ken rose"
To: blake@albion.com
Cc: goldfish@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Message-Id: <19980114051313.10388.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Sorry you couldn't access my site, I will make some changes,
and wait.
thank-you
Ken Rose
>From blake-request@albion.com Tue Jan 13 13:22:11 1998
>Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP;
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>Received: by albion.com (NX5.67e/Albion+2)
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>Old-Return-Path:
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:00:03 -0500 (EST)
>From: Nathan P Miserocchi
>To: blake@albion.com
>Subject: Re: Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience
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>
>Dear NorNob and others,
>
>The Songs site uses animated graphics, frames, some java, and in some
>places Macromedia director. Unfortunately, many browsers that come
>with AOL, Netcom, and other service providers don't support these
feature.
>The site is best used with Netscape or Microsoft IE. I apologize for
>the inconvience to those who are experiencing difficulties.
>Unfortunately, I'm not that experienced using AOL or other such service
>providers. If anyone is having a problem connecting, could you send
>me specific info describing the problem. In NorNob's case, can you
>get to the site at all, or is there a specific mesg. that comes up
>on your screen?
>
>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, NorNob wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 98-01-12 10:28:38 EST, you write:
>>
>> << heir images provided they
>> are labeled....) and I have opened up the site. >>
>>
>> I tried to access your site, but aol couldn't get me in. What gives?
>>
>> Ron Javorsky
>>
>>
>
>--
>Nathan Miserocchi Department of English
>email: nmiseroc@umich.edu University of Michigan
>http://www.umich.edu/~nmiseroc Ann Arbor, MI 48105
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:54:09 +0500 (EST)
From: Meredith Thomson
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "Infant Joy"
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
To Tom and all the others who have been thinking about "Infant Joy."
You might find it interesting to read the poem as a dialogue between
parent and the internal child. The tensions that emerge when the language
is read carefully changed the poem for me to a marked degree.
Meredith Thomson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:05:56 -0500
From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Another Kindred Spirit...
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
...in fact, some of the lines are remarkable, the way they remind me of
Blake, is this newly published book, _Some of the Dharma_ by Jack Kerouac.
And Jim Watt, you would be pleased to hear Kerouac not forgetting people
like Augustine or Aquinas (although he doesn't have the best things to say
about Aquinas, at least in one spot!), and others in what remained to his
death a deeply imbedded Christian heritage, as well.
Truly beautiful stuff.
----Randall Albright
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:45:48 -0500
From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "Infant Joy"
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Another point about this poem, visually, is that Coleridge complained (?)
that a child that young wouldn't have its eyes open. But starting with the
Introduction to these "Songs", the line between a child and the adult who
sees him/herself IN that child (Self in Other) is blurred. Would a little
kid that young really "weep with joy" to hear a happy song, even if it was
the Jesus message (Intro)? Or would it be an adult that has "become young",
like Jesus did, according to Blake, in the Lamb poem?
In other words, I don't think that Blake, who had the capability to produce
complicated, realistic stuff like "Joseph of Armithea", has made a
"mistake"-- or that, just because he didn't have kids himself, he didn't
know what kids that age are really like. Similar to the later Tyger poem,
what is said and what is viewed are more than what first meets the eye.
"It takes one a long time to become young."
---Picasso
It's also interesting to note that the French and American Revolutions were
themselves "young", like little infants, at the time _Songs of Innocence_
were written.
---Randall Albright
http://world.std.com/~albright/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:29:30 -0500
From: calisto3@ix.netcom.com
To: Blake@albion.com
Cc: calisto3@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Response to Beulah as an Edenic state
Message-Id: <3450F71A.24CF@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
How can you think that Beulahis a positive place? Look at the Book of
Thel! Thel's story is one of failure because she never leaves
Beulah--she fails to enter genertaion, the cycle of life. Blake's idea
about innocence is that it is more like wisdom, that is, it is
something that we should achieve despite our experience. Very much
unlike Wordsworth who idealizes the child, Blake sees the perpetual
chil;dhood as a failure, a negation of the very lviing of life which
is necessary to generate the kind of wisdom or innocence in experience
that Thel never has, but Oothoon from Visions of the Daughters of
Albion had!
Furthermore, Blake's Edenic state is not a state were conctraries are
"resolved" or "reconciled," a place where the contraries exist in
their pure form, coexistence without domination or ruling. Blake does
not look at childhood as some sort of ideal past, paced on a pedastal
that we have somehow "lost." Blake's idseal is the human divine, the
"Poetic Genius," that is alive and living in every one of us--but this
grand vision that makes all life holy is only realized when you live
life, not denounce by staying in Beulah. Like a nursery, Beulah is
limiting in its comfort. It is like Blake's own chance to live a
country cottage piad for by his pirmary patron--Blake turned this down
because the comfort, the ease og that life was limiting, as Beulah is
limiting because it does not allow the Daughters of Inspiriation to
descend and realize their active sexuality in the triumph of eternal
imagination.
Calisto
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End of blake-d Digest V1998 Issue #2
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