Today's Topics:
Blake and Kabbalah
first message
Re: first message
Re: Blake and Kabbalah
Re: Blake and Kabbalah
Gnosticism
Any hope for "Mental Traveller"?
"The Sick Rose"
Re: Gnosticism
Mental Traveller
Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Re: first message
Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Re: "The Sick Rose"
Re: "The Sick Rose"
Redemption and MT
Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Query: "Four Zoas"
Re: Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
RE: "The Sick Rose"
History
Re: "The Sick Rose"
Re: Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Re: "The Sick Rose"
Re: "The Sick Rose"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 13:36:02 -0800
From: Bill Franklin
To: Blake@albion.com
Subject: Blake and Kabbalah
Message-Id: <34FC77C2.7494@gte.net>
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:34:33 -0600
From: "David and Sandra Beathard"
To: "William Franklin"
Here I am again. I wasn't certain how to go about this so if you
would be so kind as to edit the query and forward the pertinent
parts to Ms. Van Schaik I would be in your debt.
[I refuse to edit--this is what she wrote.]
Dear Ms. Van Schaik,
I'm that Jewish woman in Dr. Franklin's class. Though Jewish, I
know a little about Kabbalah and even less about Blake. But as we
studied Blake's poems in our text I was puzzled that a man who had
no formal education and had such a hatred of the church, could
write such deep, spiritual poems. We discussed the Hall of Souls,
where my brother, a student of the Kabbalah, once told me that once
the Hall of Souls was emptied that life, as mankind knows it, would
end. I've also long believed that we all are spirits before our
earthly birth, and that we even have the choice of who our parents
will be, with full knowledge of all the repercussions that are
involved in that choice.
Thinking on this, my puzzlement increased as I was trying to
understand Blake's poetry.
>From Song's of Experience: Introduction:
Hear the voice of the Bard!
Who Present, Past, & Future sees;
Whose ears have heard
The Holy Word
That walked among the ancient trees;
Calling the lapsed Soul
And weeping in the evening dew;
That might control
The starry pole,
And fallen, fallen light renew!
Our text advises that this poem is talking about God, the Garden of
Eden, and Adam and Eve. But could it also be talking about a
pre-existence and the choices we, as spirits, make? Could not the
soul weep for what might or will be once earthly life begins? More
personally, could not my soul have wept, knowing what would happen
in my life, even while it still chose to go through with my earthly
birth?
Please do forgive me for being an ignorant student, or for implying
that I might even understand this work. But also, if you have the
time, please also help me to understand if I might be on the right
track. Any and all suggestions are welcome, for though ignorant, I
am an apt pupil.
Thank you very kindly,
Sandra E. Beathard
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:25:50 -0600
From: Mark Donovan
To: "'William Blake'"
Subject: first message
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My name is Mark Donovan, and I am a student at Southwest Missouri State =
University. I am currently involved in a Blake seminar. I have been =
reading with interest the commentary concerning The Mental Traveller, =
and wonder is there any redemption at all in the poem? All imagery is =
generation. The only feelings in the poem result from pain and =
exploitation. The rhetorical structure of the poem does not disclose =
any redemptive moments--as far as I can see...am I missing a particular? =
Any ideas about redemption in MT? Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:27:00 -0500
From: Bill & Ingrid Wagner
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: first message
Message-Id:
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>My name is Mark Donovan, and I am a student at Southwest Missouri State
>University. I am currently involved in a Blake seminar. I have been
>reading with interest the commentary concerning The Mental Traveller, and
>wonder is there any redemption at all in the poem? All imagery is
>generation. The only feelings in the poem result from pain and
>exploitation. The rhetorical structure of the poem does not disclose any
>redemptive moments--as far as I can see...am I missing a particular? Any
>ideas about redemption in MT? Thanks.
The world is full of mystery. Us human folk try to get a handle on it.
But, Thankfully it eludes our grasp.
>>any redemption at all in the poem? I think so, but understanding poems
from different times and generations may require effort. Difficult things
harbor value that can't be expressed. Only lived. AND this is only a single
perception. Much easier to quote authority ;))
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:57:49 -0800
From: Ryan Dulkin
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake and Kabbalah
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980303145749.006ad6fc@sfsu.edu>
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Currently, I am writing my Master's Thesis on this question, or at least,
this question kicked off my Master's Thesis.
In my opinion, Blake is not directly influenced by Kabbalah. Rather, I
believe his poetry reflects Gnostic thought, a theosophical/religious
system of the Hellenistic era through the first three centuries of the
common era.
Gnostic thought ascribes these basic tenets:
1) The material world is a fallen world, created by evil minor deities.
2) The "real" Deity is absolutely transmundane and unknowable.
3) To experience this Deity, one must experience "Gnosis" or knowledge.
4) The Hebrew Bible is a "cover up" of the "true" creation of the world
and the moral law is a ploy of the evil minor deities, called Archons, who
keep fallen humanity from Gnosis.
Gnosticism is deeply indebted to Neoplatonic thought, and it tended more
toward Jewish and Christian heresy.
Like any good heresy, a semblence of the object of heresy is concealed in
the new system. Also, some aspects of heresy manifests in the "mainstream"
religion, (c.f. "Revelation," "Kabbalah.").
(For a more thorough discussion, c.f., Hans Jonas, *The Gnostic Religion.*)
Because Jewish mysticism was one result of the meeting of Hebraism and
Hellenism during the beginnings of the common era, it is not surprising
that one would recognize Kabbalah in an essentially Gnostic text. And,
since Blake's works reflect certain Gnostic worldviews, it is not
surprising that one would recognize some aspects of Jewish mysticism in Blake.
However, since I'm in the middle of my thesis, I haven't really settled
this question in my mind to my own satisfaction.
Sincerely,
Ryan Dulkin
San Francisco State
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:52:56 EST
From: EmilyJamie
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake and Kabbalah
Message-Id: <346952f8.34fc97da@aol.com>
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I might add a little bit to the discussion of Gnosticism. It is my
understanding that because we live in a fallen world, everything physical is
evil, or fallen. Thus, Christ could not have actually been human while on
earth; then, those who have gnosis, or knowledge, transcend the earthly, the
physical, and become spiritual. If anyone is interested at all in the Gnostic
approach to interpreting art, I would encourage you all to read Dixon's book,
entitled "The Secret Heresy of Hieronymus Bosch." It is very interesting
stuff. Just thought I would add my two cents :)
James Goalder
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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:04:37 -0500
From: Jenny
To: Blake List
Subject: Gnosticism
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How much, if any, of the Gnostic texts did Blake actually read? Did he
have access to them at all, and if so, to what in particular?
Auguries of Innocence
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
-William Blake
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 20:18:04 -0500
From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Any hope for "Mental Traveller"?
Message-Id:
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Well... I have read explanations that imply there is a way out of the
viscious circle, yes. At least one of them hinges on a few lines.
I personally don't see the hope. And as far as real-world (mundane?)
examples, I would note that this poem was written after the French
Revolution had collapsed into the Terror, and pulled back together under
the strong arm of Napoleon. Also, Blake had heard about the failed English
Revolution, in which his (perhaps) favorite poet, Milton, had played a
pivotal role, thinking for the better, but in Blake's view...???
So if we see the old woman as a Tyrant, and the new born boy that gets
nailed, and later gets back... we see how they inter-mingle, and even how,
at the height of it all, the Man is quite generous, isn't he? Perhaps like
John D. Rockefeller, not commenting on... how he was able to get the money
that he later gave away?
This may be too mundane. You have to look under the surface of things.
---Randall Albright
http://world.std.com/~albright/blake.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 22:52:28 -0600
From: "McGaughey, Alison R." <82394@monm.edu>
To: "'blake@albion.com'"
Subject: "The Sick Rose"
Message-Id: <310156AA3B6BD011AFFD00805FFE5849242405@nts3.monm.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain
I am an English major at Monmouth College in Illinois, and I am writing
a paper about William Blake, with a possible focus on "The Sick Rose."
I was wondering if anyone could direct me toward some scholarly
information about the worm in the poem as a phallic symbol, or any
information about the poem referring to sexual situations. Also, any
opinions or interpretations of a sexual element in this poem are just as
welcome. Thank you-- Alison McGaughey
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 23:04:45 -0600 (CST)
From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Gnosticism
Message-Id: <199803040504.XAA27813@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com>
You wrote:
>
>How much, if any, of the Gnostic texts did Blake actually read? Did
he
>have access to them at all, and if so, to what in particular?
>
>
See William Dennis Horn, "Blake's Revisionism: Gnostic Interpretation
and Critical Methodology," _Critical Paths: Blake & the Argument of
Method_, eds. Miller, Bracher, Ault (Duke U Press, 1987).
Horn points out that Blake did not know Latin, and could not have read
Gnostic accounts directly, but was acquainted with Priestly's _History
of the Corruptions of Chrisitanity_ and may easily have encountered
expositions of Gnostic thought in Pierre Bayle's _Dictionary_, Isaac de
Beausobre's _Histoire Critique de Manichee et Manicheisme_, Nathaniel
Lardner's _History of Heretics_ and _Credibility of the Gospel
History_, Johann Lorenz von Mosheim's _Ecclesiastical History_ , and
Gibbon's _Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire_. Stuart Curran has
done work on this, too.
Susan Reilly
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 23:15:05 -0800
From: Wendy Williams
To: blake
Subject: Mental Traveller
Message-Id: <34FCFF79.FC7@ptld.uswest.net>
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Gloudina:
If it is not too much trouble, I would really appriciate it.
My address is 9990 Trillium Ln.
Newberg Or. 97132
If you include your address with the paper, I will send you reimbursment
for postage. Thanks again!
Wendy Williams
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:30:05 +0200
From: P Van Schaik
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Message-Id:
Ryan, My own research suggests that Gnosticism may have been a
distortion of prior Kabbalistic ideas (if Scholem is correct), so one need
to be careful re too bland assertions regarding the priority of one
doctrine over the other.
Moreover, while there are, indeed, close resemblances between the
generalities you outline and Blake's narrative of the Fall, almost every
image in Kabbalah fits more closely. The details of Gnosticism seem to
me to differ substantially... but this is too complex a subject for general
discussion here. I should think you would need to go much further than
those who have already written in this field , such as Andrew Welburn,
to be completely convincing.
Pam
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:34:14 +0200
From: P Van Schaik
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Message-Id:
What you say is challenging in that I think this is what Gnostics believed.
Blake , however, nevertheless, sees every particle of the fallen world as
holy because it retains its expansive center of light. So it is fallen, but
redeemable at any moment in which we behold the truth, in my opinion:
and perhaps this is implied in
To see a world in a grain of sand,,,,.etc
Pam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 19:28:39 -0900
From: ndeeter
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: first message
Message-Id: <34FCD877.2C5@concentric.net>
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> >My name is Mark Donovan, and I am a student at Southwest Missouri State
> >University. I am currently involved in a Blake seminar. I have been
> >reading with interest the commentary concerning The Mental Traveller, and
> >wonder is there any redemption at all in the poem?
What do you mean by redemption? Do you mean that the characters gain no
redemption? Or are you questioning the literary soundness of the poem
itself?
> >All imagery is
> >generation.
What do you mean by this?
> >The only feelings in the poem result from pain and
> >exploitation.
What are those feelings that result from pain and exploitation? I assume
you're talking about the pain and exploitation of the child? I'm
actually very delighted by the music of the poem, by the non-flagging
persistence of the poem. The characters pursue their destiny without
questioning it, and he takes solace from his sorrow being other's joy.
Doesn't Blake seem to be re-writing the myth of the savior, the
spiritual hero who is to be exploited by the people who he is to save? I
think there's compassion in Blake's depiction for this man who is
trapped in his destiny and I think Blake rejoices in the fact that this
savior does this still willingly every time the cycle circles back. He
pursues the old woman as much as she does him.
> >The rhetorical structure of the poem does not disclose any
> >redemptive moments--as far as I can see...am I missing a particular? Any
> >ideas about redemption in MT? Thanks.
If you're talking about redemption as theme and as a value we place on
the poem, I think that the poem seems to be about the act of redeeming.
Whether it is oneself or a whole world community, one must continuously
do it because the world is always in a state of falling from innocence.
But that unselfish act of redemption is what carries us back to the
garden, back up to the tower, back up to heaven and "righteousness,"
back up to peace. He's reminding us that since the world moves in
circles, life in cycles, the quest for happiness is futile because you
can always lose it, you can always be happier. He's reminding us instead
that salvation is the truly honorable quest we should all strive for.
And a vital step in salvation is self-sacrifice.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:23:31 +0200
From: P Van Schaik
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Message-Id:
Dear Bill,
Thanks for transmitting so challenging a note.
Dear Sandra
It was a real pleasure to encounter your lively mind, even at such a
distance... and I fully agree with all your suggestions. My own
contention is that Blake was fully conversant with all the images, and
narrative of the Fall, of Kabbalah. I think he saw the Hall of Souls as
containing all the unborn souls , as well as those who never do
descend into mortal birth so we are unlikely to run out of souls there.
Then, re the bard's call to the lapsed souls, I think you could see this as
an implied reference to all of us Sleepers to awake and recognise that
this is a fallen world. We cannot truly be free of mental chains and
sorrow until we regain awareness of our divine origins and destiny and
the need for selflessness (what Blake calls, more emphatically,
self-annihilation).
I think the poem 'Infant Sorrow' makes clear that mortal birth is
equivalent to the assumption of the husk and dross which is called
kellipot in Kabbalah. `To Tirzah ' conveys the same message.
Pam
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:30:27 -0500
From: Robert Anderson
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "The Sick Rose"
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980304093026.00d348bc@pop.oakland.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elizabeth Langland's essay, "Blake's Feminist Revision of Literary
Tradition in 'The Sick Rose,'" in _Blake and the Argument of Method_
(edited by Miiler, Bracher and Ault), from Duke in 1987 is a great place to
start.
At 10:52 PM 3/3/1998 -0600, you wrote:
>I am an English major at Monmouth College in Illinois, and I am writing
>a paper about William Blake, with a possible focus on "The Sick Rose."
>I was wondering if anyone could direct me toward some scholarly
>information about the worm in the poem as a phallic symbol, or any
>information about the poem referring to sexual situations. Also, any
>opinions or interpretations of a sexual element in this poem are just as
>welcome. Thank you-- Alison McGaughey
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:42:56 -0600
From: jmichael@sewanee.edu (J. Michael)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "The Sick Rose"
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
For this and any of the "Songs", a good place to begin research is Nelson
Hilton's web site at
For each of the songs, there is a concise and well-researched summary of
critical approaches, with bibliography. This can save you a lot of
legwork. Also be sure to look at Mary Lynn Johnson's chapter on Blake in
the MLA volume _The English Romantic Poets_ (another review of research
through 1985).
Good luck,
Jennifer Michael
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:50:11
From: Izak Bouwer
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Redemption and MT
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980304135011.2e770e5e@igs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mark Donovan, your statement that "the rhetorical
structure of MT does not disclose any redemptive
moments" needs to be examined. The poem starts off
with an Incarnation. Incarnation, by its very
nature implies the coming, in the fullness of time,
of redemption.
MT describes the states in which Man finds himself
and through which he moves like a traveler. The states
at the cardinal points of the cycle correspond
specifically to the biblical events of the Incarnation,
the Apocalypse, the State of Eden, and the Fall.
The images that Blake uses in the poem to express the
varying relationships, especially at the cardinal points
of the cycle, have their parallels in the biblical
narrative and are used in similar contexts elsewhere in
Blake's work, according to Bouwer and McNally. "The
torture of the Male Babe is fairly closely paralleled in
Jerusalem (66: 17-33, 68: 57-58). The sexual act as metaphoric
portrayal of the apocalypse (implicit in the biblical image
of the Bride and the Bridegroom) is found as part of a
prophetic vision in the "Preludium" to "America" (2: 3-4.)
The banquet encountered towards the end of the quarter cycle
leading to the state of Eden (corresponding to the "supper
of the great God" at the Last Harvest and Vintage, in Rev.19:17)
is the golden feast of the Eternals described in Night 9 of the
Four Zoas. The representation of the fall in terms of a man
drawn into the power of a woman (which is symbolically related
to the biblical theme of the Sons of God descending to the
daughters of men, prior to the Flood), is encountered in Night 1
of the Four Zoas (5: 13-14) in the image of Tharmas sinking into
the sea in Enion's woof."
(BIQ 47, Volume 12, Number 3, Winter 78-79, pp 185-186)
Gloudina Bouwer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 11:23:07 -0800
From: Ryan Dulkin
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980304112307.00695a4c@sfsu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Pam,
>What you say is challenging in that I think this is what Gnostics believed.
I agree with you. I do not believe that Blake was a capital "G" Gnostic.
If anything, Blake is inconsistent. However, I do feel that he accessed
gnostic imagery for much of his poetry, especially his later poetry.
>Blake , however, nevertheless, sees every particle of the fallen world as
>holy because it retains its expansive center of light. So it is fallen, but
>redeemable at any moment in which we behold the truth, in my opinion:
>and perhaps this is implied in
> To see a world in a grain of sand,,,,.etc
>
On this point, I'm not wholly convinced. The idea that matter is
redeemable is much more Kabbalistic than Gnostic, and reflects a more
positive view of creation than i find in Blake's tone. I admit that I do
not fully understand Blake's attitude toward what we would call "nature."
Sometimes, I feel that we try to "redeem" Blake in the light of our
contemporary beliefs about ecology. I am just not sure its in the text,
though I would be open to some prooftexts on this subject.
Ryan Dulkin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:39:54 -0800 (PST)
From: ADAM KOMISARUK
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Query: "Four Zoas"
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Can anyone refer me to an article-length or other extended discussion of
the "wine presses of Luvah," at the end of Night 9 in "The Four Zoas"?
I've been able to find only bits and pieces in books on Blake so far. Reply
to this list or to me at komisaru@ucla.edu--Thanks
Adam Komisaruk
UCLA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:10:36 EST
From: TomD3456
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Message-Id: <5213c4fa.34fdb53e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Ryan-
I think you might find some prooftexts for Blake's later attitude toward
nature in _Jerusalem_ ("O holy Generation, Image of Regeneration," and
the final plates) and _Milton_ (the last several plates of Book 1 --
ending "Thus Nature is a vision of the Science of the Elohim," if I
remember correctly -- and the passages in the first few plates of Book 2
about the lamentations of Beulah over Ololon, described in terms of the
beauties of nature).
This is a complex subject, certainly, and I don't have my books with me,
but for what it's worth, I think those passages may contain some keys to
the more positive side of Blake's view of nature. I don't know that it
means he thought "matter is redeemable" -- and come to think of it, I
have no idea what that would mean -- but these passages certainly
indicate that matter is a gateway to spirit, if rightly seen (and all of
Blake is about right and wrong ways of seeing).
--Tom Devine
>The idea that matter is
>redeemable ... reflects a more
>positive view of creation than i find in Blake's tone. I admit that I do
>not fully understand Blake's attitude toward what we would call "nature."
>Sometimes, I feel that we try to "redeem" Blake in the light of our
>contemporary beliefs about ecology. I am just not sure its in the text,
>though I would be open to some prooftexts on this subject.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:06:05 -0600
From: "McGaughey, Alison R." <82394@monm.edu>
To: "'blake@albion.com'"
Subject: RE: "The Sick Rose"
Message-Id: <310156AA3B6BD011AFFD00805FFE5849242407@nts3.monm.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain
Thank you so much for your help. I appreciate it very much. Alison
> ----------
> From: Robert Anderson[SMTP:r2anders@oakland.edu]
> Reply To: blake@albion.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 8:30 AM
> To: blake@albion.com
> Subject: Re: "The Sick Rose"
>
> Elizabeth Langland's essay, "Blake's Feminist Revision of Literary
> Tradition in 'The Sick Rose,'" in _Blake and the Argument of Method_
> (edited by Miiler, Bracher and Ault), from Duke in 1987 is a great
> place to
> start.
>
> At 10:52 PM 3/3/1998 -0600, you wrote:
> >I am an English major at Monmouth College in Illinois, and I am
> writing
> >a paper about William Blake, with a possible focus on "The Sick
> Rose."
> >I was wondering if anyone could direct me toward some scholarly
> >information about the worm in the poem as a phallic symbol, or any
> >information about the poem referring to sexual situations. Also, any
> >opinions or interpretations of a sexual element in this poem are just
> as
> >welcome. Thank you-- Alison McGaughey
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 23:19:25 -0000
From: Rachel Paterson
To: "'blake@albion.com'"
Subject: History
Message-Id:
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charset="iso-8859-1"
This is a belated thank you for all those who have made suggestions
about possible considerations for my history study. The sources that
were passed on were particularly useful.
How far did Blake's views represent those of the society in which WE
live'
Bill, I asked my tutor about changing my title to one more along the
lines of the one you suggested, but unfortunately, although it would
make it more interesting, the title has to be of a more historical
orientation. I am toying with the idea of changing the emphasis more to
Blake's portrayal of his society, but this could get a bit lit. crit.ie;
still it may be interesting!
Thanks for your help,
Rachel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:50:31 -0500
From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "The Sick Rose"
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I don't see the worm as a phallic symbol.
It's, in words, a worm.
Visually, I think it is a woman.
And although there are many ways to interpret
the outcome of the text/visual image,
I'd say that at least one
ties in with "The Mental Traveller".
Although the rose may become sick and die,
I can visually see how at the top
it looks like the woman/worm is sick,
but *uses* the rose to burst forth in new life.
The cut worm forgives the plow.
But in this case, the sick rose may forgive the worm.
---Randall Albright
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:46:45 -0500
From: Jenny
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Re: Blake and Kabbalah -Reply
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think those passages may contain some keys to
>the more positive side of Blake's view of nature. I don't know that it
>means he thought "matter is redeemable"
"For everything that lives is holy." -A Song of Liberty (MHH)
"Man has no body distinct from his soul. For that called body is a portion
of sould discerned by the five snese, the chief inlets of soul in this age.
. . . Energy is the only life, and is from the body. . . ." (MHH)
I don't think Blake saw such a split between matter and the immaterial as
you seem to give him credit for.
Auguries of Innocence
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
-William Blake
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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:57:13 -0500
From: Jenny
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "The Sick Rose"
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"Jung defines the worm as a libidinal figure which kills instead of giving
life. This comes from its underground associations, its base
characteristics, its connexion with death and with the biological stages of
dissolution and the primary. Thus, it is death which the worm
symbolizes--but death which is relative from the point of view of what is
superior or organized; basically, like the snake, it denotes crawling,
knotted energy." -from Cirlot's _Dictionary of Symbols_
The worm as a libidinal figure does not necessarily translate to somethign
sexual; and, in the case of this poem, doesn't, I don't think. Also
important is the worm's invisibility:
"To become of to be invisible, psychologically corresponds to repression or
to what is repressed. On the other hand, to become invisible is also, for
the unconscious, an image of dissolution. Related to this symbol are the
Night Sea-Crossing, Devouring and the sol niger of the alchemists."
(Cirlot)
Incidentally, I would highly recommend finding a copy of Cirlot to help you
work through the symbolism in "The Sick Rose." I found it extremely
helpful. And, although I understand where that interpretation comes from,
I really don't think this poem is about sexuality.
Auguries of Innocence
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
-William Blake
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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 22:15:01 EST
From: Grymm E
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: "The Sick Rose"
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Regarding Jung's understanding/interpretation of a worm, might it seem odd
that Blake was dead some fifty years before Jung was born. It seems as if
the application of Jung's interpretation of that symbol to "The Sick Rose"
might be burgeoning into the area of intentional fallacy.
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End of blake-d Digest V1998 Issue #13
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