Today's Topics: Human Abstract / Divine Image Eternity Re: your mail greetings! Quote Introduction/Plea for help Quote -Reply Unidentified subject! Hmmmm Re: Quote -Reply The Human Abstract Spiders and snakes, Caterpillars & flies Re: Hmmmm Blake WWW links The Human Abstract -Reply Unidentified subject! -Reply Blake Society Re: The Human Abstract -Reply Re: Blake WWW links ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 09:07 CST From: MLGrant@president-po.president.uiowa.edu To: blake@albion.com, reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) Subject: Human Abstract / Divine Image Message-Id: <199703121509.JAA23102@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The poem that Blake first prepared as a counterpart in Experience for "The Divine Image" of *Songs of Innocence* is as follows: A Divine Image Cruelty has a Human Heart And Jealousy a Human Face; Terror, the Human From Divine And Secrecy, the Human Dress. The Human Dress, is forged Iron The Human Form, a fiery Forge. The Human Face, a Furnace seal'd The Human Heart, its hungry Gorge. The design shows a kneeling nude figure in the act of wielding a hammer (resembles B's later representations of Los - just as the old bearded gowned man in the design for "The Human Abstract" can be thought of as a first appearance of Urizen, as yet unnamed). The Los figure faces front in relation to the viewer, hammer brought back over his r. side (viewer's left), preparing to strike a human-faced sun on the anvil at his left. That is, he is side-oriented toward the project he's working on and the heavy-looking hammer is in the furthest-backward position to give maximum force to the blow he is about to strike. There's only the upper part of the sun-face on the anvil, with eyes turned up. (The clumsiness of this description points to the need to look at the actual picture on Nelson Hilton's or the University of Virginia site. An aside: I worry that all this online chat is taking people away from books! When people ask where to find commentary on "The French Revolution" or some other poem, I always wonder if they've checked the standard bibliographies yet.) Back to some quick thoughts on "The Human Abstract": I think Blake must have decided that this first shot at a counterpart poem for *Experience*, "A Divine Image," presented too simple a set of oppositions - just "The Divine Image" in reverse, showing images or ideas of God derived from the worst in human nature and action. For a deeper set of oppositions, he reversed "Divine" to "Human" and "Image" to "Abstract," showing how badly we distort and falsify "the human form divine" when we create obfuscating myths and images and theologies in which God is the Wholly Other. The Tree of Mystery (or Poison Tree) is Blake's name for the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (opposite of the Tree of Life) in Genesis. The reason that "The Gods of the earth and sea" (whoever they may be) can't find this tree is that they are looking in the wrong place, in Nature; the tree is our own creation; it grows in the Human Brain (and turns us into Urizen-like people when we - and our worst attributes - cultivate and water it and eat its fruit of "Deceit." -- Mary Lynn Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:57:01 -0600 From: jmichael@seraph1.sewanee.edu (J. Michael) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Eternity Message-Id:Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Philip Benz wrote (several days ago) > I have a special problem with the notion that Urizen is portrayed >before his fall. From the first words of _Ur_, we see the individual >identity that will be named Urizen as separate from the universal >fellowship that defines Eternity. To speak, as Gloudina did in her >question to me, of < > is an oxymoron -- I >maintain that the cognitive energy that Urizen incarnates is *never* >portrayed in an unfallen state. > Indeed, I might go so far as to suggest that *cognition itself* is >predicated on the genesis of temporality, within Blake's cosmology. I haven't had time to keep a close eye on all of this discussion, but is there some reason why the _Book of Urizen_ is the only place we can look for portrayals of Urizen? The clearest depiction of Urizen before the fall is spoken by Ahania in _The Four Zoas_. (Night III, as I recall). You may classify this as "pissing and moaning," but it's still a beautiful passage. There's much to be said about the fact that Eternity is so often described through the warped goggles of pastoral nostalgia: Urizen himself falls victim to it in Night VI, apparently oblivious to his own role in the fall. But if Eternity is never depicted in the present, what is being described at the end of _FZ_? Jennifer Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:58:30 -0500 (EST) From: Benson Smith To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: your mail Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, tyler Miskowski wrote: > Greetings fellow Blakeans; > I have recently joined your estute list, and am pleased with the topics > that have been in motion. As it is right now, I am not able to add to the > topics of discussion. However, I would like to see if anyone can aid in > the interpretation of one of my favorite poems, The Human > Abstract . I have been reading the poem for a couple of years and > keep discovering new personal interpretations. I have gone to the stacks > for helpful insight, but choose to reach out for some new insight. Anyone > interested? > The sixth, and final, stanza brings about some curiosity among my > colleagues and myself. There are many visualizations throughout the poem. And just when is your paper due? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:06:27 -0800 (PST) From: Lettycia TerronesTo: blake@albion.com Subject: greetings! Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello everyone. I'm a new subscriber to the awesome Blake page, and thought I'd give a brief introduction of myself. I'm currently taking an 18th and 19th century literature course at UCBerkeley and we just finished discussing (all too breifly) Blake's" Songs of Innocence and Experience" and some of the " Proverbs of Hell." Being that I can't get enough of Blake, I look up some stuff on the net and to my delight found you guys. I'm in the process of writing a short 5 pager on "A Divine Image" and will fill you all in on some ruminations a bit later. I can't tell you enough what a pleasure and exciting thing it is to know that people out there consider poetry for the sheer joy and mental musings it incites. It sincerly makes me have a better out look on life and my fellow humans. Hear from you soon, Lettycia Terrones. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:54:57 -0700 From: "Charlie K." To: blake@albion.com Subject: Quote Message-Id: <199703130152.SAA12723@gost1.indirect.com> 3: O Times remote! When Love & Joy were adoration: And none impure were deem'd. Not Eyeless Covet Nor Thin-lip'd Envy Nor Bristled Wrath Nor Curled Wantonness 4: But Covet was poured full: Envy fed with fat of lambs: Wrath with lions gore: Wantonness lulld to sleep With the virgins lute, Or sated with her love. 5: Till Covet broke his locks & bars, And slept with open doors: Envy sung at the rich mans feast: Wrath was follow'd up and down By a little ewe lamb And Wantonness on his own true love Begot a giant race: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 01:17:37 -0600 (CST) From: The Voice of the Devil To: blake@albion.com Subject: Introduction/Plea for help Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Allow me to introduce myself. My name is David Downie and i am a graduate student at the University of Nebraska at Omaha, currently scurrying to finish off my MA before the current Romantics Professor retires. (About 3 years too early for me to replace him) -- (And get this, he is retiring to finish his book on Willa Cather. - some of us Nebraskans are fixated on her, but not me.) Anyway, my first question to the group is for any and all WWW resources related to William Blake that you may be aware of that I am not. If a list has circulated before, I would appreciate a fwd . In particular, I am lacking Criticism (or is it that the web is lacking ?) I am compiling a web page as the means of my thesis presentation, so if anyone has readily available electronic texts to donate to an effort to consolidate Blake Resources. I would also accept any attachments and gladly =post your work on the web. For Free. _ What a deal , huh ? Private e-mail is preferable. David Downie ddownie@unomaha.edu wwwengl@unomaha.edu http://www.unomaha.edu/~wwwengl/blakeweb/ (Hey - I'm still working on it !) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:32:29 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com Subject: Quote -Reply Message-Id: The quotation from Charlie provides much insight into Blake's vision of Eternity - in case others are still looking for examples of this and what did others think of Oothoon's speech re love being as free as the mountain wind? And recalling times when she brought golden girls for the pleasure of her Zoa? These passages throw a great deal of light on the intermingling of essences of all the spirits in Eternity -- of their mingling of their soft fibres which become hardened into fleshy forms in Nature after Urizen finds the loves and graces of Eternity sinful. I think few (if any?) critics see the true meaning of what Oothoon says. Pam van Schaik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:25:46 +0000 From: Keri Davies To: blake@albion.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Message-Id: Hello to evryone on the Blake list. I'm Keri Davies and I'm Chair of the Blake Society. This is to let you know 1. The Blake Society now has its own website under construction at http://www.efirstop.demon.co.uk/BlakeSociety Take a look at the site and send me your comments. Better still, if you're in London, come to our meetings. 2. For all you Kathleen Raine fans. On Tuesday April 15, 22 and 29 at 4 pm, Dr. Kathleen Raine is giving seminars on The Marriage of Heaven and Hell. And on Tuesday 20 May at 7pm she will be delivering a lecture on "The Imagination according to William Blake". The seminars and the lecture are at The New Temenos Academy, 14 Gloucester Gate, London NW1 4HG. Further details phone 01233 813663. Regards KERI -- Keri Davies ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:39:24 -0500 From: tyler Miskowski To: blake@albion.com Subject: Hmmmm Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970313143923.00695b58@pop.mail.nmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Actually Benson, I am an education major, preparing to give a lesson to tenth graders on Blake. I enjoy this poem thoroughly and plan on including it in my lesson. I would hope to be as prepared as possible when I teach it. Also I am planning on demonstrating how students can get into a disscussion via the internet. I believe this will encourage more youth to actively participate in the discussion of poetry. The problem I see with youngsters, as well as adults, is that they believe there to be a mysticism to the realm of poetry. I hope that demonstrating how one can bring that mysticism down into consciousness by discussing a poem and understanding it to themselves is important. Therefore I am practicing my skills at locating information, satisfying my own curiosity, and empowering students by enabling them the vehicle to discover poetry. I have no paper due, if you are truly interested. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 16:48:31 -0700 From: "Charlie K." To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Quote -Reply Message-Id: <199703132345.QAA01315@gost1.indirect.com> I also think this quote gives a good picture of the pre-fall condition as Blake conceived it, Eden. They say The Book of Los is often overlooked as a minor edition to the overall illuminated cannon, but with passages in it like this quote, I wonder... This pre-fall state was when no restraint was placed upon Human desires. Satisfy one's need for Wrath not with a movie or a petty argument as we might today, but with the gore of Lions. Lust was satisfied by a "virgins lute" or by "her love." Envy was fully spoken, so it was known. The Human Emotions in all their Glory were allowed to be Expressed & Uttered and Felt, they were not suppressed, "and none impure were deem'd." No such thing as sin here. I do think it is interesting how the last couple of lines refer to the beginning of distinct races, linking it to when Man first felt ownership over *his* true love. (?) More Quotes to come... Charlie --------------------------------------------------- 3: O Times remote! When Love & Joy were adoration: And none impure were deem'd. Not Eyeless Covet Nor Thin-lip'd Envy Nor Bristled Wrath Nor Curled Wantonness 4: But Covet was poured full: Envy fed with fat of lambs: Wrath with lions gore: Wantonness lulld to sleep With the virgins lute, Or sated with her love. 5: Till Covet broke his locks & bars, And slept with open doors: Envy sung at the rich mans feast: Wrath was follow'd up and down By a little ewe lamb And Wantonness on his own true love Begot a giant race: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 20:24:35 -0500 From: tyler Miskowski To: blake@albion.com Subject: The Human Abstract Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970313202435.0069842c@pop.mail.nmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have an idea about the caterpillar and the fly? I am trying to figure out why they are feeding off the mystery. Are there any references of a caterpillar and fly anywhere? TJM "Nobody wants to hold on to knowledge." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 21:24:46 -0600 (CST) From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Spiders and snakes, Caterpillars & flies Message-Id: <199703140324.VAA27616@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> TJM The Lord of the flies was Beelzebub; they are scavengers and feed on the dead, as do worms (caterpillar?) So a very simplistic analogy might run something like: the evil and opportunistic scavenger feeds on the detestable Mystery, (see concordances and annotatons to edns of Blake on his mistrust of Mystery) which breeds more evil and opportunist plunder, oppression. SR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 21:46:55 -0700 (MST) From: fawman@compusmart.ab.ca (Steven Mandziuk) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Hmmmm Message-Id: <199703140446.VAA11476@bernie.compusmart.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Which poem? *************************************************************** >Actually Benson, > >I am an education major, preparing to give a lesson to tenth graders on >Blake. I enjoy this poem thoroughly and plan on including it in my lesson. >I would hope to be as prepared as possible when I teach it. Also I am >planning on demonstrating how students can get into a disscussion via the >internet. I believe this will encourage more youth to actively participate >in the discussion of poetry. The problem I see with youngsters, as well as >adults, is that they believe there to be a mysticism to the realm of >poetry. I hope that demonstrating how one can bring that mysticism down >into consciousness by discussing a poem and understanding it to themselves >is important. Therefore I am practicing my skills at locating information, >satisfying my own curiosity, and empowering students by enabling them the >vehicle to discover poetry. > >I have no paper due, if you are truly interested. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 00:46:06 -0600 (CST) From: The Voice of the Devil To: blake@albion.com Subject: Blake WWW links Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I assumed too mus=3Dch in my last post. I had asked for any links to Blake resources that I was unaware of, but I did not give the specific links I found. The Page is located at www.unomaha/edu/~wwwengl/wblinks.html or view it with frames. www.unomaha/edu/~wwwengl/frlinks.html --------------Here is the HTML source. Sorry. I haven;t the time to edit it. Please feel free to put this on your site. Blake Links
- U. Virgina Bla= ke Archive
This site is unfinished, but there are many texts available in the Index.
U= =2E Toronto's Blake Archives
Much better organized than Virginia's Site, and also includes other val= uable Poetry Criticism
Blake by FTP from worl= d.std.com
A small E-Text storehouse
Visions of the Daughters of Albion
A graphical presentation of Blake's work - However the gopher client do= es not return anything. I am leaving this links in hope that someone fixes= it.
Coleridge on Blake
A letter from Coleridge housed at U Virginia
Blake O= n Line Archives
Digests of past discussions from Blake On-Line.
Blake Digital Text Pro= ject
Links for either text or graphical browsers featuring The Complete Blake - ed. David V Erd= man which is just what it says. All Blake's works in one Electronic te= xt, beware downloading !! It is over 2MB and normally requires increasing your browser's memory. Also the= re is a b/w version of The Songs of Experience
The Prov= erbs of Hell
"Selected and Modified for the 21st Century" by T. Kirman
Tyger Tyger...=
A cute page with Tiger pictures.
- The William Blake Page=
- A page with lots of nice graphics including the illuminated works The Marriage of Heaven and He= ll, The Songs = of Innocence, and The Songs of Experience. = It is also available in text-only format
- William Blake
- A timeline, biography and links to the U Toronto sources. This also ha= s .midi background music of Ravel's Bolero - Wrong period, but still a ni= ce touch.
- William Blake (1757-1827= ): Poet, Artist & Engraver
- A nice site indexing more poems for graphical browsing, a bigraphy and = a some artwors.
- Kansas City H. S. Page o' Blake
- Mainly other existing sources linked to this page, but I can't ignore a= link for younger generations of Blake Fans
- "My Willia= m Blake Page"
- An interesting graphic presentation with a timeline, and links to poems= and art.
- Con= cordance to Sondgs of Innocence and Experience
- A full concordance displayed in a Frames Setting.
- Gendering N= ature: Blake's "THEL" and the Eros of Butterflies
- A graduate presentation by David Lashmet, University of Florida
- Unf= urling the Worm: Insecto-theology in William Blake's Thel
- Another presentation by David Lashmet, University of Florida
- The "bou= nding line": Verbal and Visual Linearity in Blake's "Laoco=9An" and Book of= Urizen
- A unique frames presentation by John Tolva
- John Stanger's Page
- A Thesis and other articles concerning Blake
- WILLIAM BLAKE'= S MILTON: MEANING AND MADNESS
- A thesis by Edward Robert Friedlander, M.D.
- William Blake at The Origins of Post Modernity
- An article by Ranalto Barilli
=09=09David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:29:40 +0200 From: P Van Schaik
- A View on Willi= am Blake
- Some personal thoughts on Blake
- The Four Z= oas
- An experimental hypertext experience integrating the works of Blake
- Blake On= -Line
- Homepage for an E- Mail discussion list on Blake from Albion.
- The William Bl= ake Oasis
- I'm still not exactly sure what this is all about, but it looks nice
- Chrisis Church of A= rt
- The Art of William Blake and more in an eye popping design
- The Blake Tarot=
- Now William Blake can help tell your future !
- Louvre Muse= um
- A biography and 9 color artworks.
- Quotes
- A handful of Blake Quotes
- Illustrations for Gray
- U Virginia links to Blake's Illustrations to Thomas Gray's Poems
- Blake Timeline.
- A Well done timeline with links to specific events
- 20/20 Blake
- A beautifuly done graphical page with Blake artwork, showcasing a perfo= mance arts presentation of Blake' Vionary episodes. Try the 3-D images !!<= p>
To: blake@albion.com Subject: The Human Abstract -Reply Message-Id: Try relating the Fly, Caterpillar (and all other noxious animals mentioned by Blake) to the Devourer as opposed to the Prolific. This allows them to be seen as representative of human types. The Fly can be seen as having as much right to life as man in the line "Art thou not a man like me...?", but, like the Spider (associated with Urizen weaving his nets of Religion) is also capable of representing the oppositie of humanity in its noxious aspect. The Tiger and Worm also have both benign and malign aspects ... the Worm can free the soul from the prison of the body, and can have an infant human form to be cherished by the Clay (in the Book of Thel), but can also represent man's declension from his/her divine human form into a `worm' from which , like the caterpillar, the butterfly must ultimately emerge again. Excuse the very compressed answer. ... but the question is a very interesting one as it impinges on the way all things in Blake must be seen as moving along a whole spectrum --- from light and expansion in Eden , to darkness, occlusion and death in the abyss. Pam van Schaik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:49:49 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com Subject: Unidentified subject! -Reply Message-Id: Keri, Temenos recently accepted a videotape I made on Blake's Vision of the Fall of Man which will therefore be available to anyone to see from now on at the address you gave. It is based on 15o of Blake's own designs and tells the story of the fall from Innocence into Experience and the regaining of Innocence. It was made for Unisa fourth year students several years ago and I apologise in advance for the awful synthesised music which the Department of Technology chose to fit the program to... the music cuts I chose would have cost the university too much. I'd really like to get feedback on the program if anyone sees it. There is also a slide-tape show of mine which I made to commemorate the recent 2ooth anniversary of The First Book of Urizen which I gave to David Worrall at Strawberry Hill which you may like to keep along with the videotape at Temenos. I'd really appreciate it, if you could locate the slide-lecture and keep it safely and make it availabel to visitors interested in Blake. Also, please send love to Kathleen Raine whom I met long ago in London and who was kind enought to treat me to tea in her house, and an interesting discussion on Blake. I have a lot of material for my own Blake web-site which I hope to open... when I get some time to focus on doing so, and lcquire the necessary expertise to make it look attractive. I urgently need advice on whether one can illustrate freely with Blake slides - or can avoid copyright by altering them or zooming in and out. Anyone out there with knowledge re this? Pam van Schaik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:10:52 +0000 From: timli@controls.eurotherm.co.uk (Tim Linnell) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Blake Society Message-Id: <21110.199703141011@merlot.controls.eurotherm.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" re your note on the Blake mailing list: >Take a look at the site and send me your comments. Better still, if >you're in London, come to our meetings. When and where do you meet? Is there a charge for the Raine seminars? Best wishes Tim Linnell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:04:20 -0600 (CST) From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: The Human Abstract -Reply Message-Id: <199703141304.HAA29613@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Pam, I like your explanation of the butterfly aspect of the worm. I was puzzled over, but didn't take the time to think through, as you did, the transcendence that the image partially suggests. After all, there has to be a way out of that horrific cycle... Susan You wrote: > >Try relating the Fly, Caterpillar (and all other noxious animals mentioned >by Blake) to the Devourer as opposed to the Prolific. This allows them to >be seen as representative of human types. The Fly can be seen as >having as much right to life as man in the line "Art thou not a man like >me...?", but, like the Spider (associated with Urizen weaving his nets of >Religion) is also capable of representing the oppositie of humanity in its >noxious aspect. The Tiger and Worm also have both benign and malign >aspects ... the Worm can free the soul from the prison of the body, and >can have an infant human form to be cherished by the Clay (in the Book >of Thel), but can also represent man's declension from his/her divine >human form into a `worm' from which , like the caterpillar, the butterfly >must ultimately emerge again. Excuse the very compressed answer. ... >but the question is a very interesting one as it impinges on the way all >things in Blake must be seen as moving along a whole spectrum --- from >light and expansion in Eden , to darkness, occlusion and death in the >abyss. Pam van Schaik > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:58:54 -0500 From: Ron Broglio To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Blake WWW links Message-Id: <3329599E.CEB@ucet.ufl.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here at Univ. Florida there are several folks working on Blake and hypertext. You have the URLs of David Lashmit's work and some of Bill Ruegg's. There is also Marcel OGorman's work. See, for instance, http://www.ucet.ufl.edu/~ogorman/blake/10intro.html Bill Ruegg and myself have done some hypertext theory with Blake applications. See http://www.ucet.ufl.edu/~bruegg/nassr/nassrtrans.html There are also quite a few essays on Blake from last years grad. conf. http://prometheus.cc.emory.edu/center.html and if I may plug my own work, see also http://prometheus.cc.emory.edu/panels/1E/Broglio.html Enjoy Ron Broglio -------------------------------- End of blake-d Digest V1997 Issue #32 *************************************